Functions, and how they work.

Functions, and how they work.

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This is a discussion on Functions, and how they work. within the Cognitive Functions forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; This is for me to see if my understanding of what is meant by different cognitive functions is right. I'm ...

  1. #1
    INTJ - The Scientists

    Functions, and how they work.

    This is for me to see if my understanding of what is meant by different cognitive functions is right. I'm a Te user, so I like to have a system of understanding things that everyone can agree upon as being right. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Perceiving Functions

    Here's a fantastic piece of art from one of the ISFPs. (Do you mind me using it? If you do, I will remove it and use one of my own creations.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sovia View Post
    Se will notice the vividness of the colours, the details of the lines and shapes, and immerse themselves in enjoying the objects and colours and details.
    Si will notice the details in terms of the subconscious impression they make on the person, their own personal interpretation of what they see, relating it back to past experiences and eternal images from the unconscious.
    Ne will see alternate meanings, alternate ways of interpreting the picture, suggestions of metaphors or the art may catalyse action from the ideas present in it.
    Ni will be focused on the significance of the subject and its meaning from different possible perspectives, it may represent or spark some insight into their own personal understanding of the world, it may symbolize universal concepts.

    So now, to go from that example to using more technical language to describe how it works.
    - Se notices the details. Attention is captured by the object, separate from the self, and is held by experiencing the outer world in rich detail. it is an objective function, ie it gains energy by focusing on what is readily observable in the real world. Vivid experiences energize Se.
    - Ne is also an objective function. How it differs from Se is that it does not notice physical, concrete objects, but it notices the ideas or concepts inherent or present in these objects. Every object can suggest ideas and possibilities. Playing with ideas, concepts, metaphors, and meanings of words energize Ne.
    - Si is a subjective function. Instead of noticing the object, the impression, meaning, significance or "rightness" of an object is noticed by Si. Awareness of the actual object itself is repressed, but the personal representation of the object is heightened. New impressions are connected to past or known impressions, even to universal images. Positive or negative sensations may be connected with the subjective representation of the object.
    - Ni is also a subjective function, but it is the subjective side of intuition. Ideas and concepts are important in the impression they make on the person, and the personal subjective value of them. Concepts and patterns of universal importance draw Ni's attention, and understanding the concepts, perspectives, and underlying assumptions that shape the world fascinates Ni.


    Judging Functions

    I don't really have an example for these. So I'll just give some brief descriptions.

    - Fi is a subjective value-based reasoning that allows the user to make judgements based on personal ideas of what has value and what does not, and what is right and what is not. Fi dominants focus on refining their value judgements, for example their ideas of right and wrong.
    - Fe is an objective value-based reasoning that ascribes value when everyone can agree upon it.
    - Te is objective reasoning based on observable facts. Decisions are made based on impersonal standards. Te is objective in that the logic used should be universally understood and agreed upon.
    - Ti is subjective impersonal reasoning. It involves clarifying concepts by breaking them down into the smallest possible parts. Ti desires to build a logically complete system to understand something, or the world in general.

    That's all for now, as I'm rather tired. I may be adding more later.

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

    Here are my two main sources:
    Some great descriptions of function characteristics: http://www.enfpforum.com/Wiki/tabid/...tive+Functions
    Jung's original work: http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
    Last edited by luemb; 02-09-2012 at 04:37 PM.
    parallel, hornet, Donovan and 64 others thanked this post.



  2. #2
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Fantastic.
    Dauntless, luemb, Sovia and 5 others thanked this post.

  3. #3
    ISTP - The Mechanics

    I agree, that's an awesome picture @Sovia

    When I look at it I'm drawn to the image in the water drop, trying to work out if it's inverted horizontally, vertically, or both. It looks like both, but that doesn't go well with my (rusty ) understanding of the laws of refraction, so I'm tempted to recreate a similar scene to check. I could look it up but that wouldn't be as fun! But would that be Se noticing the details in the foreground and background don't fit or Ne seeing a water drop and thinking of the principle of refraction? I'm not sure.

    I was going to comment on how precise these descriptions are, but I think they're too precise for me.
    Sovia, Fuzzyslug, chrisu and 1 others thanked this post.

  4. #4
    INFP - The Idealists

    Thanks for this. Although, now I am even more confused.
    Benja, Sunbeam, Femmefatale and 4 others thanked this post.

  5. #5
    INTJ - The Scientists

    @asmit127 I'm going to say that is Ne and Ti. The words are escaping me at the moment. It isn't Se, as Se doesn't start theorizing or conjecturing. Ne provided you with some ideas for possible theories, and then you needed some Ti to try and figure out which one was right.

    Its actually inverted both ways :)

    @BlissfulDreams Yeah... I used a lot of technical speak. There are plenty of other threads that discuss characteristics of each function and what results each function produces. I wanted to get down to the core ideas though, the foundation that produces the results that are seen. Maybe later I will write up more about how these functions work together, and what sort of thoughts they produce.
    hornet, suicidal_orange and outlawshaman thanked this post.

  6. #6
    INTP - The Thinkers

    As far as I can tell, I don't see anything wrong with your description.

    When looking at the painting, at first I've noticed the nice colors and how they complemented well with each other. But after staring at it for another minute, I started thinking of how the branch would make a really cool looking golf club. With your descriptions, that would be Se and Ne for me
    luemb, Sovia, Forget and 1 others thanked this post.

  7. #7
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Se will notice the vividness of the colours, the details of the lines and shapes, and immerse themselves in enjoying the objects and colours and details.
    I would clarify that Si can do this too. I think there is some confusion about this. Sensing is sensing, its just Si is making comparisons to that which has already been experienced and Se has more of a perspective of emergent experiences.
    Neon Knight, luemb, JungyesMBTIno and 1 others thanked this post.

  8. #8
    ISFP - The Artists

    Quote Originally Posted by listentothemountains View Post
    This is for me to see if my understanding of what is meant by different cognitive functions is right. I'm a Te user, so I like to have a system of understanding things that everyone can agree upon as being right. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Perceiving Functions

    Here's a fantastic piece of art from one of the ISFPs. (Do you mind me using it? If you do, I will remove it and use one of my own creations.)

    Se will notice the vividness of the colours, the details of the lines and shapes, and immerse themselves in enjoying the objects and colours and details.
    Si will notice the details in terms of the subconscious impression they make on the person, their own personal interpretation of what they see, relating it back to past experiences and eternal images from the unconscious.
    Ne will see alternate meanings, alternate ways of interpreting the picture, suggestions of metaphors or the art may catalyse action from the ideas present in it.
    Ni will be focused on the significance of the subject and its meaning from different possible perspectives, it may represent or spark some insight into their own personal understanding of the world, it may symbolize universal concepts.

    So now, to go from that example to using more technical language to describe how it works.
    - Se notices the details. Attention is captured by the object, separate from the self, and is held by experiencing the outer world in rich detail. it is an objective function, ie it gains energy by focusing on what is readily observable in the real world. Vivid experiences energize Se.
    - Ne is also an objective function. How it differs from Se is that it does not notice physical, concrete objects, but it notices the ideas or concepts inherent or present in these objects. Every object can suggest ideas and possibilities. Playing with ideas, concepts, metaphors, and meanings of words energize Ne.
    - Si is a subjective function. Instead of noticing the object, the impression, meaning, significance or "rightness" of an object is noticed by Si. Awareness of the actual object itself is repressed, but the personal representation of the object is heightened. New impressions are connected to past or known impressions, even to universal images. Positive or negative sensations may be connected with the subjective representation of the object.
    - Ni is also a subjective function, but it is the subjective side of intuition. Ideas and concepts are important in the impression they make on the person, and the personal subjective value of them. Concepts and patterns of universal importance draw Ni's attention, and understanding the concepts, perspectives, and underlying assumptions that shape the world fascinates Ni.


    Judging Functions

    I don't really have an example for these. So I'll just give some brief descriptions.

    - Fi is a subjective value-based reasoning that allows the user to make judgements based on personal ideas of what has value and what does not, and what is right and what is not. Fi dominants focus on refining their value judgements, for example their ideas of right and wrong.
    - Fe is an objective value-based reasoning that ascribes value when everyone can agree upon it.
    - Te is objective reasoning based on observable facts. Decisions are made based on impersonal standards. Te is objective in that the logic used should be universally understood and agreed upon.
    - Ti is subjective impersonal reasoning. It involves clarifying concepts by breaking them down into the smallest possible parts. Ti desires to build a logically complete system to understand something, or the world in general.

    That's all for now, as I'm rather tired. I may be adding more later.

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

    Here are my two main sources:
    Some great descriptions of function characteristics: ENFP Wiki
    Jung's original work: Classics in the History of Psychology -- Jung (1921/1923) Chapter 10
    Wow, thank you so much. It filled my heart up with joy to see this here
    You are more than welcome to use it and any of my other pieces, it is my pleasure.
    fourtines, cityofcircuits, luemb and 5 others thanked this post.

  9. #9
    ISFP - The Artists

    Quote Originally Posted by asmit127 View Post
    I agree, that's an awesome picture @Sovia
    Thank you so much ^_^
    suicidal_orange and outlawshaman thanked this post.

  10. #10
    ENFP - The Inspirers

    Quote Originally Posted by listentothemountains View Post
    Ne will see alternate meanings, alternate ways of interpreting the picture, suggestions of metaphors or the art may catalyse action from the ideas present in it.
    Ni will be focused on the significance of the subject and its meaning from different possible perspectives, it may represent or spark some insight into their own personal understanding of the world, it may symbolize universal concepts.
    Sorry, I didn't get very far, but I find this part a bit off. I'd argue that Ni is more interested in metaphor than Ne. Ne seems to tend more towards metonymy: seeing a part of a possible whole that keeps expanding towards an even bigger network of possibilities. Ni is more interested in the system-building that metaphors are so good for. At least in my mind.

    EDIT: The rest seems bang on though.
    hornet, myjazz, bobdaduck and 11 others thanked this post.


 

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