Intuitives and Abstract/Symbolic Thinking-- A Sensing Asks!

Originally Posted by Eos

If you have yet to see this video it will help clarify the differences in thinking between N and S.

I think this guy is kind of derogatory.

There are a couple of things that you need to consider here, like the following.
1. Ni versus Ne.
2. Dominant versus auxiliary.
3. The influence of the dominant function (for auxiliary iNtuitive).
4. User maturity and background (May not be pertinent to the discussion though).

Since your functions are TeSiNeFi, it may be more appropriate to talk about Ne instead of Ni. Anyway.

I'm TiNe, which means I'm auxiliary Ne user. My experience will be different compared to Ni user, Ne dominant user, and FiNe user. Even other TiNe user will have different experience due to different background and level of maturity.

When people present me with something, say an observation, I could not help but to think about different outcomes available from that observation. In addition, I'm curious about why s/he present the observation, and how s/he say it.

For example, it is 24 degree Celsius cloudy weather.
People: Nice weather isn't it?
Me: It's cloudy and therefore it may be a good weather for a read in the park. It feels colder than the usual weather though. Then again, it may be due to the clouds. Will it be raining today? How about the weather conditions in the past few days? Wait, why do this person comments about the weather? Maybe this person wants to make a small talk. After all, weather is one of the most common things to talk about in social setting. Another thing to talk about is the well-being of the person. Or how's the day going for that person. Maybe this person is bored and looking for some conversational partner to pass some time. Usually it will be raining cats and dogs in these time of the year. I'm guessing I should be grateful that it's cloudy today instead of raining.
Me: Yes, it is a nice. The weather, I mean.

The italics represent the things I think about when people present verbally some observation. Though it is more scattered and oftentimes, abruptly stop in the middle of nowhere.

An usual disclaimer: My thought pattern may be different under different state, circumstance and tasks involved.

I remember one situation from when I was a kid, I learned a strange bit of information: water boils at a higher temperature when in a pressure pan. I asked my dad (ESTJ) about why is that, he said "because it's under pressure". I was like .. wtf?

In retrospect (looking back), the kind of answer I wanted was something like this:

Even though you think water boils at 100 degrees, that's not really true. The state of water between ice/liquid/gas depends not only on the temperature, but on the pressure too.

Notice what that statement does. It "fixes" my mental model about the thing. Before, I used to think: water freezes at 0 and boils at 100. But now, I've fixed that by adding an extra variable: pressure. The 0-100 thing is only under normal/usual pressure.

Before, the pressure pan thing seemed like a really odd exception to the rule. But now, it's a very normal consequence of the rules.

Though again I guess this has more to do with Ti than Ne.

With dom Ne at work--my default state--I have a running internal monologue of free association going on. If the environment carries no new information (say I am walking through a hallway I pass through every day) I am usually imagining possible outcomes of my tentative plan for the day or some problem that had been weighing on me emotionally.

Example of my train if thought which is Ne filtered by Fi-
(Walking through a hallway at my university research building) If x prospective love interest decides to go to office hours instead of sit at his usual take? He might do that since he seems agitated today, but he hasn't ever gone before so why would he start now? I should go see Professor Smith about that proposal outline, but it's not completely finished so he might be dismissive and think I haven't done much work at all on it. Why would he think that though considering my huge list of sources, but still, he cares more about structure than content according to that critique of my first draft. Still, he contradicted that in his latest corrections of my paper, didn't he? Saying my structure was good but content was lacking. I will just sit down here at my usual...but someone's already there, ugh! Would it be weird to sit in the same general vicinity even though I would normally have no reason to? The reasons the heart has, the mind knows... er, how does that idiom go? Why can't I remember that? It was in a book with that poem about walking in the light, and I can almost picture it on the page in my minds eye, gah. The structure of the sentence involved a contrast made, so heart if the opposite of...mind? No, the heart has reasons that... reason knows nothing of! That has the right ring to it. Was that really it though? How does that even make sense? Reason is synonymous with brain in this context... or maybe the concept of reasoning itself? Reason knows nothing of, anthropomorphizing Reason. Why not just switch "brain" for reason to make a more even parallel? Ugh how cold and clinical that sounds. Why isn't he here yet? So the outline needs the second section shifted to the bottom of the paper so the sequence of ideas is more linear. Does moving this paragraph up there look right? Who is that talking so... its HIM and he's sitting with that Asian man he said hi to the other day. Why us he speaking loudly enough to get my attention through head phones? Does he know I'm sitting right behind him? The socialization of cats is supported by what evidence...what changes happened shaping the morphology of their common ancestor to yield the modern feline? Aggressive ancestors, docile house cats, differing in build and temperament... but is the change in temperament due to their brain shape and biological factors or simply training? Has to be brain shape since animal instinct causes trained chimps to attack people, so I'll Google scholar papers about feline temperament brain structure. I'll just reach down and take a sip of my coffee as an excuse to look around the room...

Thats a typical chunk of my mental discourse. My Ne is obviously not targeted toward being productive here but its far easier to portray NeFi when talking about how Ne operates. I tried to show how Ne jumps around from the present to the past database of stored experiences, from the macro level perspective to the micro object oriented view, making connections and associating qualities with other qualities, switching between the three or four simultaneous processes I have going on in my minds eye. Multi tasking its my default state, manageable due to the visual map in my head that creates a picture of everything that needs to be done with the pathways being the fuzzy part. I don't plan how to get from point A to point B because I am always changing directions and refining the end product and you can't very well stay on the same straight path if your desired outcome is constantly changing. If you are not a visual spatial thinker I don't think it will be productive to try to use more Ne because it will be too taxing and not time efficient. Its wonderful that you can think linearly though. It is required for jobs that fulfill different niche in society that someone like me would never be able to handle!

Originally Posted by cactus_waltz

I think this guy is kind of derogatory.

It's not derogatory if its true; and does it really matter as long as the info is sound?

Originally Posted by shedreamt

With dom Ne at work--my default state--I have a running internal monologue of free association going on. If the environment carries no new information (say I am walking through a hallway I pass through every day) I am usually imagining possible outcomes of my tentative plan for the day or some problem that had been weighing on me emotionally. What if x prospective love interest decides to go to office hours instead of sit at his usual take? He might do that since he seems agitated today, but he hasn't ever gone before so why would he start now? I should go see Professor Smith about that proposal outline, but it's not completely finished so he might be dismissive and think I haven't done much work at all on it. Why would he think that though considering my huge list of sources, but still, he cares more about structure than content according to that critique of my first draft. Still, he contradicted that in his latest corrections of my paper, didn't he? Saying my structure was good but content was lacking. He's such a badass with his Pandora always playing during our meetings. He must get distracted without background noise, like me. He could be my quirky mad scientist uncle with those antics. I will just sit down here at my usual...but someone's already there, ugh! Would it be weird to sit in the same general vicinity even though I would normally have no reason to? The reasons the heart has, the mind knows... er, how does that idiom go? Why can't I remember that? It was in a book with that poem about walking in the light, and I can almost picture it on the page in my minds eye, gah. The structure of the sentence involved a contrast made, so heart if the opposite of...mind? No, the heart has reasons that... reason knows nothing of! That has the right ring to it. Was that really it though? How does that even make sense? Reason is synonymous with brain in this context... or maybe the concept of reasoning itself? Reason knows nothing of, anthropomorphizing Reason. Why not just switch "brain" for reason to make a more even parallel? Ugh how cold and clinical that sounds. Why isn't he here yet? He will be here...he always is lately. So the outline needs the second section shifted to the bottom of the paper so the sequence of ideas is more linear. Does moving this paragraph up there look right? Who is that talking so... its HIM and he's sitting with that Asian man he said hi to the other day. He's more animated than usual and loud enough to get my attention through head phones. Does he know I'm sitting right behind him? Is that why he's carrying on like this...to get my attention! But he always studies here and still hasn't made eye contacHE LOOKED BACK! He was looking right at me looking at him! Romeo and Juliet looking through the fish tank with that Desiree song playing. How long should I stay here pretending to work on this paper? Will he get up soon? The socialization of cats is supported by what evidence...what changes happened shaping the morphology of their common ancestor to yield the modern feline? Aggressive ancestors, docile house cats, differing in build and temperament... but is the change in temperament due to their brain shape and biological factors or simply training? Has to be brain shape since animal instinct causes trained chimps to attack people, so I'll Google scholar papers about feline temperament brain structure. I'll just reach down and take a sip of my coffee as an excuse to look around the room... still there. When we date someday I'll be in his apartment that looks like a fusion of my old school dorm and my parents living room with black furniture and it's clean not messy, maybe even with candles since he seems unafraid of defying gender norms, a guitar in the corner and we'll have mugs of tea...he drank green tea and mentioned sleepytime tea to that stoner friend of his how sweet and sensitive, a tea drinker, his arm around me staring into my soul with those pale eyes like the eyes of my former research advisor, another sweet sensitive beta male. What is it about pale green eyes? It gives that appearance of depth to human expression but it is totally superficial and I don't know this guy at all on a personal level. Stop it. He is probably not assertive and I bet he's passive aggressive too. Remember how awful it felt dating that passive types of men who never stood up to me and had me making all the decisions? But they're so different, with my exes being so rigid and cold and this guy being so warm. If I hadn't dated a few losers I would never have learned the qualities I loathed...everything works out so well, for the best really, no matter how badly the heart is broken. Que sera sera. Wasn't that exactly one year ago? What day is it? Yes, it was a year ago when we broke up and now things are coming full circle. This is supposed to be happening right now! It fits into the framework of the journey towards my self actualization with him being a catalyst. A reaction on the macroscopic level between two souls with my activation energy hill being lowered with him around making this turning point in my life easier to adjust to. But still that nagging feeling... I really know nothing about him and need to focus on this paper because God wants me to fulfill my destiny and he's distracting me now more than he is positively influencing me, focus, focus! It will work out whether it's meant to or whether he is a blip on my radar in the grand scheme of things. God put him in my life to motivate me this first month here in this new city at a strange school and he's served his purpose now just like other people in my life who influenced my personal growth so I won't think about him any moreHE'S WALKING! Walking away, slowly, not quickly or with determination, like he has to be somewhere. Should I follow him and ask him a question about class? Would that be trying too hard? He looked right at me though, but before he had approached me, so why isn't... that would make it even then, a push-pull, not creepy of me to approach! Phew ::gets out of chair and strides across hallway:: "Hey! Can I borrow that chemistry text you mentioned?"

Thats a typical chunk of my mental discourse. My Ne is obviously not targeted toward being productive here but its far easier to portray NeFi when talking about how Ne operates. I tried to show how Ne jumps around from the present to the past database of stored experiences, from the macro level perspective to the micro object oriented view, making connections and associating qualities with other qualities, switching between the three or four simultaneous processes I have going on in my minds eye. Multi tasking its my default state, manageable due to the visual map in my head that creates a picture of everything that needs to be done with the pathways being the fuzzy part. I don't plan how to get from point A to point B because I am always changing directions and refining the end product and you can't very well stay on the same straight path if your desired outcome is constantly changing. If you are not a visual spatial thinker I don't think it will be productive to try to use more Ne because it will be too taxing and not time efficient. Its wonderful that you can think linearly though. It is required for jobs that fulfill different niche in society that someone like me would never be able to handle!

Seriously ? ha!! Not to rain on your parade, i can't imagine trying to read that without going completely blind. Paragraphs , it needs many many paragraphs.

With that being said i love the way you expressed yourself. Ne is a beautiful thing, we can go on rants like no other. Believe me, i've done it many times. I actually did read it ;)....and was mostly teasing you. Nicely put, thanks for sharing your thoughts :)

Originally Posted by Eos

It's not derogatory if its true; and does it really matter as long as the info is sound?

Even truth can be delivered with tact.

Originally Posted by cactus_waltz

Even truth can be delivered with tact.

Yes, but he's an INTJ. That's fairly tactful if you ask me. :P

Originally Posted by MuChApArAdOx

Seriously ? ha!! Not to rain on your parade, i can't imagine trying to read that without going completely blind. Paragraphs , it needs many many paragraphs.

Lol I know right? IMO it wouldn't fit with rendering an Ne dom thought process into stream of consciousness tho. :p One's brain hopping from lily pad to lily pad in a pond of floating ideas isn't compartmentalized. Maybe its just my short attention span and not Ne at work.

Originally Posted by shedreamt

Lol I know right? IMO it wouldn't fit with rendering an Ne dom thought process into stream of consciousness tho. :p One's brain hopping from lily pad to lily pad in a pond of floating ideas isn't compartmentalized. Maybe its just my short attention span and not Ne at work.

Maybe you had an Ne explosion ;)