The difference between Ni/Se and Ne/Si?
I've always been confused over which of these I use. I know I use Ti and Fe (only really because I know for certain I use Ti!) but I've alway found these others quite confusing.
Then I thought of this example of different kinds of creative writers I have been involved in and how other writers' brains seem to work very differently from mine.
So I was in a poetry class at uni quite a few years back now and I hated it! The poetry teacher would put a feather on the table and say "Write!" Well, I had a go, and I quite enjoyed it. I described the way the feather looked in poetic detail - spending ages choosing the perfect words to describe the delicacy of each strand of the feather and thinking about the gracefulness of its fall to the ground - finding what I thought were the perfect words for that too.
Then we had to read our poems out. Everybody else had seen the feather as a symbol of something. What they'd written wasn't even about the feather, it was about something the feather had sparked in their minds. When I read mine out, the teacher gave me a slightly pitying look and said "that's very observant".
I'm pretty certain i use N over S - in fact, I'm 100 per cent certain I use N over S! But does what I've said above sound quite Se? Could this be the difference between Ni and Ne? Stimuli does not necessarily lead to a flurry of imagination. You do not necessarily see the feather as "love" or "anxiety" or whatever the hell the other poets were on about, but just see it as a feather, but a poetically beautiful one that you can get pleasure out of by thinking about the details of it and how over millions of years the feather has evolved to become the best tool for flight and how intricate and amazing the feather is when you consider that. When you think of how it was created and how fascinating the world is with its complex systems of life, which at the end of the day, were accidents born many millions of years ago but now have been refined and refined and refined until they become beautiful and near-perfect objects.
Am I right here? Would I be using Ni/Se and the others using Ne/Si?
ENFJ - The Givers
From my experience both Ni and Ne users tend to see things as symbols more than actual objects it simply makes the world more interesting and allows you to attempt to explore its nature simply by thinking about an object or item such a a feather. Though I think an Ne/Si user is more likely to subconsciously base their concept of the feather or whatever they are writing of on something close to them, from the past maybe and thus develop more of a personal insight (this is not always the case i am just going by Se vs Si mostly here) whereas the Ni/Se user is more likely to percieve the feather as they see it then (much like you did) and from there look into what it represents to them most at that moment. Of course there is a large possibility I could be wrong, I am msotly just winging it with this.
Good call, I agree with what you said about Si - seeing it as a symbol that means something personally to them. From my understanding, Ne tends to sort of move meaning along a chain of signs - so that it will see a variety of meanings coming out of one object. I would say that I don't see the feather as just a feather - Se dome might? But that I see it as a part of a much bigger thing that is far more interesting than the feather itself - or rather, the feather is interesting because of what it is part of. But I'm not completely sure that is necessarily Ni at work. I'm not sure that ni would see any kind of personal meaning in things - like that they would connect it with themselves. I don't tend to anyway. I tend to see it as part of a larger web, it is more symbolic of past, future, science, biology - the feather opens up an entire world of fascinating things, but it remains a feather.
Originally Posted by Fenrir317
I call Ni/Se the detective.
Se - collects clues
Ni - uses those clues to predict a future situation.
Ne - Creates possibilities
Si - Chooses a possibility based on passed experiences or impressions
Haven't figure out a name for that pair yet.
I took the liberty of creating a crude diagram in paint:
Last edited by MrShatter; 08-21-2011 at 09:56 AM.
ENFJ - The Givers
This is why I am not even certain of my own function preference anymore, how all these different functions end up coming to the same conclusion. Why care about how it is done if the result is the same? Both Ne and Ni in the chart/situation predict the future so why even go through the trouble of labeling them two different functions especially when considering that the same specific functions will manifest differently in different individuals.
Originally Posted by MrShatter
They don't give the same results.
Originally Posted by Fenrir317
Look at the qualities of Ne vs Se or Ni. It picks up different information... not to mention: the judgement functions also work in collaboration with the perception functions
I think that your last line is the core of the difference between Ne and Ni.
Originally Posted by ukinfj
They both see web of conenctions.
Ne sees meanings adding to the object something more and transforming it , Ni sees meanings ''changing perspective'' on the object ( that then become symbolic of biology, then of future, past , science ... ) but the object is still the same.
Introverted functions filter the reality from stored data so the object and the stored data are'' all the same'' (there is a sort of continuity) .
Si can change the object because what i see and what is stored is ''the same'' and i will not have a ''contraddiction'' .
Ne then extract different and ''autonomous '' meanings from this tranfromation, everyone separate from the others.
Se sees the objects autonomous and separate and for what i see just there , for '' what it is''.
Ni sees the different meanings as '' all the same'' so i can ''change perspective'' without ''contraddiction''.
I hope that it is understandeable , i can't explain it better sorry. And i hope it could make sense.
That , if true, wuold be in line with the novelty and creativity and divergence of Ne , and the all encopassing and convergent tendency of Ni.
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