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Trying to understand functions: what cognitive functions was I using here?

18K views 216 replies 15 participants last post by  Mark Novbett 
#1 ·
Hello,

I'm trying to understand cognitive functions so that I can work out my personality type. I have read lots of material about the different functions but I still can't work out what functions I use the most. The only way I can figure out how to do this is by posting examples of my behaviour and you guys telling me what functions I was using at the time.

I hope that makes sense. So in this scenario what functions was I using?

I was in a club with friends the other night and one guy started dancing with us. Then my friend and this guy started kissing. They haven't never met before it was a spontaneous moment.

The guy then left our group without saying goodbye - he just walked off. And so I said "Where did he go?" and my friend who was kissing him said "I don’t' know". So I looked around the corner where the bar is to see if he was getting a drink or something and I saw him sat with two other girls, arms around them chatting them up etc.

My friend was really hurt by this, but I was not surprised. My two other friends were also hurt by his actions and were very protective of my friend who had been kissing the guy. The night ended with one of my friends shouting at the guy and my other friend slapping him.

This annoyed me. I thought my friends behaviour was completely unnecessary. This guy was basically on the pull, he had made no promises so getting angry at him and slapping him was unnecessary. My friend was very hurt and I could sympathise, she got her hopes up. But a night club is not a place to meet your future boyfriend!

I didn't tell my friends my thoughts because I didn't want to upset them. Instead I told my friend who had kissed the guy that he isn't worth getting upset over and it is his loss.

Today the subject was brought up again about what happened and I decided to tell her my thoughts on the matter and she just said she's over it now so doesn't really care what happened that night. Which is fair enough.

So...what functions was I using here?

Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
Yeah, this working out functions thing is hard but I'll try and help.

I notice from your signature you're deciding between INFJ and INFP, two completely different types. Ni Fe Ti Se or Fi Ne Si Te - not one shared function! If you're serious about finding your type you'll have to drop the idea that you're a quiet girl who doesn't take everything at face value and respects people's feelings so you must be an INF - it's a view based on stereotypes and while it might be true it might not.

Consider the personal element of the situation - did you have any thoughts on the guy's motives as he approached or did you "just know" what he was after? Was this based on previous experiences in clubs, life or an idealised image of how guys should behave?

I'd also like to ask whether you have got better at suppressing the urge to tell the truth (as you see it) as you have got older, or more keen to express it? The above example is just one and to me has F and T involved, with intended emphasis on the F as that's what you think you use. But I could be overanalysing a very short piece of text :laughing:

If you had all been sober and the guy had just come over and talked for a while before disappearing without saying bye how would you have reacted/felt? Why is this different to when in a club drinking? Why were you not sympathetic/supportive of your friends feelings?

The reason MBTI is a self typing system is because it's about the why not the what you do. If you're willing to write an essay of your entire through process for such an event someone could do it for you, but everything you write will have bias.

In anticipation of your response I'm going to read some of your other posts to try and get a better picture of you, hope you don't mind :happy:
 
#4 ·
Consider the personal element of the situation - did you have any thoughts on the guy's motives as he approached or did you "just know" what he was after? Was this based on previous experiences in clubs, life or an idealised image of how guys should behave?
I 'just knew' what he was after. I've never personally experienced what my friend did but I notice guys going around the club 'trying it on' with different girls. When the guy joined us for a dance I thought he would dance with us for a bit and move on. Then he and my friend started kissing. From my perspective I didn't expect anything to develop from that. I was still wondering when he was going leave our group and eventually start chatting up some other girls.

I'd also like to ask whether you have got better at suppressing the urge to tell the truth (as you see it) as you have got older, or more keen to express it? The above example is just one and to me has F and T involved, with intended emphasis on the F as that's what you think you use. But I could be overanalysing a very short piece of text :laughing:
I think as I've got older the urge to tell the truth is stronger. I actually spoke to my friend yesterday (the one who kissed the guy) and told her how I thought the other two girls shouldn't have overreacted the way they did. My friend shrugged her shoulders and said she's over it now. And that was that. She didn't agree or disagree with me. I still have the urge to speak to my other two friends, they are 4 years younger than me and I suppose I feel like I need to give them my perspective on the events that happened. However I've decided that there's no point in speaking to them now as the event was a few days ago and I don't want to come across like a 'know it all' or that I think I'm better than them. I can understand how they reacted. Their friend was upset and they wanted to protec her/fight for her.

If you had all been sober and the guy had just come over and talked for a while before disappearing without saying bye how would you have reacted/felt? Why is this different to when in a club drinking? Why were you not sympathetic/supportive of your friends feelings?
If we were not in a club and he had just come over and talked for a while and not said bye I would have thought he was rude. In a club it's different, people are constantly moving around briefly saying hi and then wondering off so I just assumed that he got what he wanted from my friend and moved on.

I believe I was supportive of her feelings, I kept checking with her that she was ok because I could see she was hurt and disappointed. I even kept whispering in her ear that it was his loss and that she is worth so much more and to not let it bother her. I thought there was no point me getting fired up like my friends and having a go at the guy when he was just some random guy that we had only just met and who had made no promises. If he had been my friends boyfriend and started chatting up other women then I definitely would have been there telling him off.

I know that if I was in her shoes I would have been very hurt and upset, probably would have even cried. I would have felt silly for letting my guard down. It seems that when things are happening to me I get very emotional and I can't think straight, but when it's happening to someone else I'm very good at keeping calm.

I don't know if this adds anything to the above: My mother was ill recently to the point where was crying a lot and was very confused. She said she was surprised with how well I coped and how calm I was about the whole thing and how supportive I was/am.

In anticipation of your response I'm going to read some of your other posts to try and get a better picture of you, hope you don't mind :happy:
Feel free to read them :laughing:
 
#3 ·
Having read through the original post I came to the conclusion that your behaviour is in many ways similar to that in INFJ descriptions. I suggest that you have a chat with some INFJs and see if you identify with them.

I did not realise, until I looked at asmit's post, that your signature indicates INFJ or INFP, but I tend to trust my gut instinct when reading this kind of thing. Though the scenario is very breifly described, there is significant evidence that you have developed considerable control of your feelings and treat your value based judgments with a respect not often seen in a thinking type individual. I saw little to no sign of significant detail that would be considered necessary data for a sensing type individual, but it could just be that you were trying to keep it short, so ISFJ is also a slight possibility.
This statement,
My friend was really hurt by this, but I was not surprised. My two other friends were also hurt by his actions
may also be indicative of an under developed extroverted sensing function. Giving further creedence to the possibility of INFJ type.

Function-wise,
Strong objective use of Feeling function, indicating Fe in dominant or secondary position; subsequently indicating Ti (introverted thinking) as tertiary or inferior;
Weak objective use of Sensing function, indicating Se in tertiary or inferior position; subsequently indicating Ni (introverted intuition) as dominant or secondary;
There are also mild undertones of the predictive nature of the Ni function.
The fact that you saw a greater need to protect and withdraw, rather than attempt diplomacy with your friends and the guy, shows a preference for introverted behaviour.

Putting it all together we get the functional model - Ni Fe Ti Se, which equates to INFJ.

Of course this is all just guess work. YOU must be the one who decides what description is the closest fit for you. Remember, your preference type will never be an exact representation of you, because you are individually unique.
 
#5 ·
:cool:

I was extremely confused by this post. When you said "my friend" I couldn't tell who you were talking about (as you had said there were multiple friends there earlier), and pronouns such as "his" and "her" aren't very helpful when the only person whose gender we know for sure is "the guy".

From what I could understand, I'd say you were using Fe, which would indicate INFJ. But with inferior Se, I imagine they aren't exactly the type that enjoy going to night clubs.

Hm... just read your recent post though. "Just knowing" the motives, emotions, and intentions of other people is commonly attributed to Ni, especially as used by xNFJ's. So I would say, from what you have posted, that INFJ is the most likely type for you.
 
#6 ·
Sorry yes it is confusing now that I read it back :S

Basically Friend 1 kissed the guy. Then Friend 2 and Friend 3 confonted the guy first by shouting at him and then by slapping him. I stayed back with Friend 1 and just tried to comfort her and tell her that he isn't worth getting upset over. I thought Friend 2 and Friend 3's actions were uneccessary.
 
#8 ·
A lot of people are saying you were using Fe, but I think it was Fi. Fe is more thinking for the better of the group, so you probably would have been on of the girls slapping the guy, not because you thought he needed it, but because you know it would have made your friend feel better in the moment. Instead you went with what you felt internally, signifying Fi.

Just the vibe I get from your story is INFP. I'm INFP...so yeah. That's how I would have reacted, almost exactly.
 
#10 ·
ImNoTJustletters said:
Interesting that I had no trouble understanding her OP. (This is really just a comment about our differences – how we interpret things)
Yeah that was interesting - I had no problem either. Poor use of Te? The OP agreed it was confusing so it might help her (as well as me :happy:)

umbrellasky said:
And so I said "Where did he go?"

I 'just knew' what he was after.

so I just assumed that he got what he wanted from my friend and moved on.
Hmm... you knew he had what he wanted, expected him to move on but still asked where he went? I guess an important thing to factor in here is how many drinks you'd had at the time...

umbrellasky said:
I know that if I was in her shoes I would have been very hurt and upset, probably would have even cried. I would have felt silly for letting my guard down.
Putting yourself in another's shoes sounds like Fi to me, as agreed by ImNoTJustletters above (although he was talking about a different instance)

if you meet people with a judging function dominant you will find that they will hold some strong opinions. Ones with extraverted judgement function will feel need to express it to outside world. Ones with introverted judging function like INTPs and INFPs you will find that they can hold some solid internal opinions about things if you talk to them but they interact with the world more on perceiver basis as their main extraverted function is a perceiving one.
This seems relevant here, you are keen to express something to your younger friends and already told your kissed friend your opinion on the actions of the others - did you tell her their actions offended you or that they were wrong to do what they did? What exactly do you want to tell your younger friends?

umbrellasky said:
I believe I was supportive of her feelings, I kept checking with her that she was ok because I could see she was hurt and disappointed. I even kept whispering in her ear that it was his loss and that she is worth so much more and to not let it bother her.
This sounds like T love to me, as do your short blunt sentences in this thread. Don't forget that Ts are not emotionally cold and evil :laughing:
 
#11 ·
Yeah that was interesting - I had no problem either. Poor use of Te? The OP agreed it was confusing so it might help her (as well as me :happy:)

Hmm... you knew he had what he wanted, expected him to move on but still asked where he went? I guess an important thing to factor in here is how many drinks you'd had at the time...
That’s a good point. Maybe it wasn’t so much that I knew at the time that he was going to move on to someone else it was after when he did move on that I wasn’t surprised. Or maybe I asked ‘where did he go?” to confirm what I already knew? I’m not sure.

This seems relevant here, you are keen to express something to your younger friends and already told your kissed friend your opinion on the actions of the others - did you tell her their actions offended you or that they were wrong to do what they did? What exactly do you want to tell your younger friends? :
This is what I said to my friend:

I'm going to say something and I don't want you to think I am having a go because I'm not. However I feel like I need to say this. I think what Rachel and Sophie did was unnecessary.
My reasoning is this: We were in a club and most of the guys in a club are only interested in one thing therefore to expect a guy to only be interested in you and no one else is slightly naive. What he did didn’t surprise me. It wasn’t very nice but if anyone is looking for more than a kiss a club isn’t the best place for it. So having a go at him and slapping him was unnecessary because really he did nothing wrong. He made no promises.
I can completely sympathise with how you felt though. And I would have felt the same. Which is why I said that he is losing out because you are so much better than him.


I think the moment has passed now for me to say anything to my other friends but if the subject were to come up again I might say something...possibly along the lines of what I said above. But I really don't want to come across like I'm 'I'm telling them off'. I never said they offended me just that I thought what they did was wrong I suppose. I feel very strongly about this, but a part of me is thinking there is no right and wrong so why am I trying to force my opinion on them?

I had had 2 or 3 drinks at the time, but I don't usually notice the affects of alcohol...I'd say I still keep pretty level headed even when I'm drinking and I don't like to get drunk because I hate losing control.

This sounds like T love to me, as do your short blunt sentences in this thread. Don't forget that Ts are not emotionally cold and evil :laughing:
Oh no do my sentences sound really blunt? Sorry if I come across that way I'm just busy with Uni work at the moment so typing quickly :happy:

Thanks to everyone who has helped so far :laughing:
 
#12 ·
umbrellasky said:
Oh no do my sentences sound really blunt? Sorry if I come across that way I'm just busy with Uni work at the moment so typing quickly
umbrellasky said:
I'm going to say something and I don't want you to think I am having a go because I'm not. However I feel like I need to say this. I think what Rachel and Sophie did was unnecessary. ... What he did didn’t surprise me. It wasn’t very nice but if anyone is looking for more than a kiss a club isn’t the best place for it. So having a go at him and slapping him was unnecessary because really he did nothing wrong. He made no promises.
I can completely sympathise with how you felt though. And I would have felt the same. Which is why I said that he is losing out because you are so much better than him.
You were "busy" in your posts pre uni too :laughing: Most of your posts have short sentences, and even this "speech" is mainly short sentences... There's nothing wrong or offensive with that style but it does say something about how you think which is what we're looking at :happy: Don't think I didn't notice the added smilies at the end to "prove" you aren't a T either - I've only found one in the odd post of yours, two in a sentence? :wink: (I'm probably a T and I use loads of smilies, as do some INTJs to "make up for the lack of emotion showing in real life" so they prove nothing :crazy:)

Plus, clients often want to see a plan of your idea and the stages you go through and I just don't work like that.
Is this really true? Would you prefer to give them a detailed "picture" of how you see the finished article?

umbrellasky said:
I never said they offended me just that I thought what they did was wrong I suppose. I feel very strongly about this, but a part of me is thinking there is no right and wrong so why am I trying to force my opinion on them?
So you had a strong judgment of right/wrong and wanted to express it. This judgment sounds very common sense like to me rather than personal - T. But that this desire is growing suggest it isn't in your two most used functions, but that doesn't say anything...

I realise just how much I always try to please people! It's like I loose myself because I end up taking on the viewpoints of my friends instead of sticking by my own or I forget what my viewpoints would have been before I met them.
I wonder, is this regarding right/wrong or preferences of activities/food etc? Also, and this is a really hard thing for me to answer, why do you try and please people? Fear of rejection? Not really having a strong preference? (you don't have to post the answer but try and be honest with yourself)

I'm sorry that I'm not suggesting anything specific, but if it's getting you thinking that's progress. Though in the thread on the new personality test (skipping lots of pages) you're still saying INFX - are you really that attached to these letters or open to all the possibilities?

I feel like we need another "event" to analyse :mellow:
 
#13 ·
You were "busy" in your posts pre uni too :laughing: Most of your posts have short sentences, and even this "speech" is mainly short sentences... There's nothing wrong or offensive with that style but it does say something about how you think which is what we're looking at :happy: Don't think I didn't notice the added smilies at the end to "prove" you aren't a T either - I've only found one in the odd post of yours, two in a sentence? :wink: (I'm probably a T and I use loads of smilies, as do some INTJs to "make up for the lack of emotion showing in real life" so they prove nothing :crazy:)
Short sentences…hmm well my brother has mentioned to me that in my creative writing I use a lot of short sentences so this must be pretty common for me. I don’t realise I’m doing it.

Is this really true? Would you prefer to give them a detailed "picture" of how you see the finished article?
When I draw a painting I don’t plan it I just draw whatever is in my head or I work it out on paper and keep fixing it as I go long. Clients like to see you thumbnails of your idea and examples of the colours you are going to use etc but I don’t plan I just work it out as I go along.

When it comes to writing a story I have found that plotting the story and the characters is just a way for me to procrastinate. I work much better if I can get the ‘bones’ of the story down first and then develop the characters etc afterwards.

So you had a strong judgment of right/wrong and wanted to express it. This judgment sounds very common sense like to me rather than personal - T. But that this desire is growing suggest it isn't in your two most used functions, but that doesn't say anything...

I wonder, is this regarding right/wrong or preferences of activities/food etc? Also, and this is a really hard thing for me to answer, why do you try and please people? Fear of rejection? Not really having a strong preference? (you don't have to post the answer but try and be honest with yourself)
I suppose I want people to like me and I think that by pleasing them and doing things for them will get them to like me. It’s the way I’ve always been. I feel like it is my responsibility to help other people. Occasionally if I think I have done more than my fair share then I will stand up for myself and say that it’s someone else’s turn. I find that I can do this with my family but not so much with people I don’t know very well. It’s a confidence thing.

I'm sorry that I'm not suggesting anything specific, but if it's getting you thinking that's progress. Though in the thread on the new personality test (skipping lots of pages) you're still saying INFX - are you really that attached to these letters or open to all the possibilities?

I feel like we need another "event" to analyse :mellow:
I’m more attached to IXFX than INFX. I believe that I’m definitely Introvert and definitely a Feeler. I’m not 100% sure if I’m Intuitive or Sensing however I feel that I’m more likely to be intuitive from the things I’ve read.

Someone else mentioned to me ISFP so I have been looking at that as an option.

What I don’t match in the ISFP profile is this:

They are "doers", and are usually uncomfortable with theorizing concepts and ideas, unless they see a practical application.

I wouldn’t describe myself as a doer…I don’t enjoy practical work very much. I prefer to be imaginative and drawing/painting and writing are about as practical as I get.

However I do learn best if I try things out for myself rather than being told what to do.

I also get the impression from other websites and what people have said that ISFP’s are ‘trend’ setters. That isn’t me at all.
 
#14 ·
Another 'event' to analyse hmm...I don't know if this would be useful:

When I first moved into my University accommodation I judged one of my housemates quite harshly. She is very loud and dominates conversations a lot. She likes to talk about herself and it is very hard to have a conversation with her because it feels like a competition all the time! And this used to irritate me to the point where I disliked being in the same room as her. However, my view of her has now changed now that I know her better. She is very thoughtful and likes to check that everyone around her is ok and she likes to everyone in the house to work as a team. I actually quite enjoy her company now, although not all the time as she can be a bit full on, but overall I have learnt to see her good qualities.
 
#15 ·
I'm trying to think of other events but can't think of any at the moment.

When I was a child my mother said I was very sensitive to music and 'sad' music used to make me cry. This still happens now, I'm a very sensitive person.

I was given chocolate milk as a child because I didn't like the taste of normal milk and sometimes if I have warm chocolate milk I have this really strong sensation of when I used to drink it as a child.

Also when I was a child I used to smell my food before I ate it. I don't know whyI did this and my mother didn't know why either. I don't do this anymore...
 
#174 ·
Now I've been reading the thread from the beginning again, and thought about it.

(Sorry for the long post...)

And it's got to be N over S. This based on how I understand S as very much more direct, even when uncomfortable with the situation.

But Ne dom or Fe dom? ENFP or ENFJ? I'm leaning towards ENFP.

Some observations: (please comment!)

I was given chocolate milk as a child because I didn't like the taste of normal milk and sometimes if I have warm chocolate milk I have this really strong sensation of when I used to drink it as a child.
Speaking of childhood, have you seen this: Kids' Personality Portraits
And related to that: at what at age were you first bullied, and can you see that it changed your personality?

I could relate to Se and Ti in the first example and also Fi and Fe (couldn't decide between the two). The first part of Se "You might look at the apple tree and notice the contrast of the ruby red apples and the deep green leaves, the rich brown-gray of the trunk and branches, and how the sunlight plays across the yard. " I definitely relate to.

The second part: "You go to the tree and pick an apple, and bite into it with a crunch, savoring the tree ripened sweetness and the aroma of a really fresh apple. " I probably wouldn't do, I'd imagine eating the apple rather than eating it.
Isn't this more Ne in both parts, since you seem more likely to imagine all the details than actually experiencing them.

So I went behind their back and emailed housing asking for advice. I didn't give housing my friends’ names or the house that they live in. It was just an enquiry email asking for advice on what the procedure is for this sort of situation. They replied to me saying that my friends will need to contact them directly.
Do you often work on things behind the scenes? If so, why?

In both of your "events" there isn't much data collection. The situation is, you immediately form an opinion without really knowing what it's based on.
After having viewed the videos I can see this being either a slightly judgmental attitude, or more of an impulsive thing - acting on whatever comes to your mind in the moment.

* I sometimes jump too quickly into an activity and don’t allow enough time to think it over.
* Before I start a project, I sometimes forget to stop and get clear on what I want to do and why.
I spend a lot of time thinking about what I'm going to do before actually doing it.
What would you say on this?

I could relate to how they were feeling because I remembered feeling the same way.
If this is about the basis for judging then Fi, if just an observation I'd say Si. Which do you say?

Although at my last place of work, once I had settled into my role, I pretty much sorted out all of the procedures and wrotes lists of instructions on how to do things. [...] It was quite enjoyable sorting everything out.
Te, this? Overall, I don't see Ti but Te.

Another reason for not thinking I'm extrovert is that I need lots of time alone to reflect on things. Being around people all the time makes me irritable and drains me. I also find it difficult to open up to people about my inner most thoughts and feelings, even to my own family.
I don't see this resonating with the impression you are giving in the videos. Though you do mention that you like to have plenty of time in the morning, and doing things more slowly has been described as a Fi dom thing.

My past experience with trying to express myself verbally is that no one is listening, or I get talked over by people who are supposed to be my friends. So instead I used to be a bit of a joker amongst my friends because the only way to get their attention was to act like an idiot. This is why I prefer one to one friendships where I can have a proper conversation with someone.
I identify with this myself, but I don't know if it is type related. I think in my situation it's the case that I do not express myself as clearly as I think I do, and then have not always been very wise in my choice of friends. And that Ni doms are generally misunderstood.

I asked my brother if he thought the way I acted was out of character and he said "no it wasn't out of character for you" and I asked "why?" and he said "because you're a quiet upriser" and I said "quiet upriser?" and he said "Yeah, it was against what you believe so you acted. Quietly. You do things quietly without people noticing."
Makes me think Fi again. Seems we are all agreed on Fi so far.

So that's not really much imagination. Does it also show that you are very black/white in your thinking? Either someone acts like you or the opposite, no middle option?
You're being quite hard on her, asmit... :laughing: Anyhow, I think this shows Fi, but doesn't disprove Ne.

To my family I'm much more open with my reactions.
I'm not sure by now whether you do mean that you show your true feelings to your family or not?

A student was talking about how she felt that we are set too many essays to write instead of being asked to do creative/fictional writing. I disagreed with her because the course is very balanced, for each module we do a creative piece and an essay.
This seems like you are justifying your Fi with your Te, disregarding the fact that the other student was talking about her feelings about the course, and instead (internally) responding with the argument of a quantifiable objective "balance".

On the feedback my tutor described one of the pieces as very 'matter of fact' and that I have 'lots of ideas’ and should have ‘experimented a bit more’.
The tutor sees 'lots of ideas' in you, but thinks you hold them back. Do you agree with this? And do you think it relates to the fact that you felt the instructions were not very clear?

I suppose this sounds like me: ‘ there are so many options that you'd like to follow that you can't identify which one would be the best at any given time’
I don't think this could be dominant Fi.

I get enthusiastic for a few weeks until something else catches my eye
This strikes me as relevant somehow. Is this ENFP behaviour? Or plain N-dom?

I asked this question because when you are little you are only supposed to have your dominant function developed. The fact that you were focused on being one thing would suggest that you are not Ne or Se dominant. The fact that you later came up with lots of different options that you can't choose between would indicate Ne or Se auxillary.
I agree with the logic. But I think they 'why' could be important here. Umbrella: what was your reason to want to be a vet?

I doubt the accuracy of the answers especially as umbrellasky's response was very fast, fast enough to suggest that she still thinks she knows why she does everything which as you know from taking ages typing yourself no-one does.
Is that hoping for an INTJish standard of accuracy? :crazy: Why shouldn't fast responses count?

I'm still leaning heavily towards S - see my N test question sneaked in earlier where the meaning was completely missed as the sentence was taken in isolation. I also answered one question out of order in a PM and it was completely missed.
I don't see why missing out on details is more S than N? Rather, I think it suggests the opposite...

Some classic examples of Si too, the first came in response to my rabbit pictures the second is self explanatory.
I agree with the specific observation but I don't see this as typical for the posts in general... and:

I don't know...hmm when you put me on the spot like that everything shuts down!
could be just basic insecurity rather than type.

Finally I expressed a controversial humanitarian opinion that should have set off Fi especially if it were dominant but instead I got
umbrella said:
I suppose it's a topic I haven't spent much time thinking about and I don't have a solid opinion on. If I had an opinion on it I would be very passionate about it. It's a tough one, lots of thoughts keep popping into my mind and it's mostly 'what else is there'
Why would a Fi type need to have strong opinions about everything? The fact that she states that she would be passionate about it, were she to have an opinion, makes me think of Fi. And then Ne in the next sentence is very clear in my opinion.

And that's definitely not me. I am a very helpful person and I do it because I feel like I have to, or I feel like that's what people expect of me and it's my responsibility.
I think this, together with the rest of that post, is enough to convince me at least for now, that you are not SJ. So that means I'll scrap the xSFJ idea.

I think I was too quick to answer that question and just blurted out whatever came to mind.
Do INFPs really do this?




So, in way of conclusion, I offer this: Well seemed to agree on Fi over Fe for a while, but then asmit switched sides at post #74. Except for that I think we agree on Ne over Ni, Si over Se and Te over Ti. Is that right?

If so, that gives INFP or ENFP with the STJs ruled out. My vote is for ENFP.

Thoughts?
 
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#18 ·
Thanks for posting, I don't think I've read that before. I find descriptions of the functions difficult to understand. I know I probably sound really thick, but I need more than just a description. I need examples of how someone might use that particular function in their life, if that makes sense? I need scenarios that I can relate to in order for me to decide if I use that particular funtion more than another function.

Sorry it just goes over my head :sad:
 
#19 ·
umbrellasky said:
I know I probably sound really thick, but I need more than just a description. I need examples of how someone might use that particular function in their life, if that makes sense?
Yeah, you sound really thick where I understand the functions perfectly and have my type clearly displayed! (not sure how well you read sarcasm in text, but it was intended :blushed:)

Have you seen these examples? http://personalitycafe.com/articles/34956-function-attitudes-applied-differing-scenarios.html The scenarios given are external, so hopefully you will hopefully identify with two of the Xe functions, but if you're an I you might not recognise your inferior one...
 
#20 ·
Again thanks for your help :happy:

I could relate to Se and Ti in the first example and also Fi and Fe (couldn't decide between the two). The first part of Se "You might look at the apple tree and notice the contrast of the ruby red apples and the deep green leaves, the rich brown-gray of the trunk and branches, and how the sunlight plays across the yard. " I definitely relate to.

The second part: "You go to the tree and pick an apple, and bite into it with a crunch, savoring the tree ripened sweetness and the aroma of a really fresh apple. " I probably wouldn't do, I'd imagine eating the apple rather than eating it.

In the second example I could definitely relate to Ne and Se and Fe. Ne more than Se.

:laughing:
 
#21 ·
I've thought of another 'event'.

I have two friends who live on the same campus as me but in a different house. They have been having 'issues' with their housemates. Basically their housemates have been bullying them. When they spoke to me about it they were very upset. I suggested that they contact the University housing department and report the situation and seek advice on what can be done. They were very reluctant to do this. They felt that they were overreacting and that they were the ones with the problem. They also felt that they would not be taken seriously if they reported it.

So I went behind their back and emailed housing asking for advice. I didn't give housing my friends’ names or the house that they live in. It was just an enquiry email asking for advice on what the procedure is for this sort of situation. They replied to me saying that my friends will need to contact them directly.

So I told my friends what I had done. I actually put in the email "please don't hate me for going behind your back..." I was worried that they might think I was interfering. I've experience bullying and I felt that I couldn't just sit back and allow this to carry on. Anyways, my friends were really happy that I cared enough to get involved and were not angry with me at all. They said that what I had done had helped them make the decision to go and speak to housing.

Any ideas on the functions? The fact that I had experience bullying in the past was definitely one of the things that spurred me on into helping them. From my experience letting things like bullying carry on only makes you ill and I didn't want them to end up ill. They should be able to relax in their own home! Not be frightened to go into their own kitchen when the nasty housemates are in there
 
#22 ·
Again, I'm not going to know what the functions are just from the what, it's in the why.

That you relate to Se in both examples suggests you use it, where an INFP does not.

Are you more likely to be factually honest with a stranger or someone you know well? It's often easier to be harsher with someone you may never see again compared to a friend you don't want to upset, but conversely you may be more relaxed with friends and more able to speak without thinking. Only you will know which is true for you.

In both of your "events" there isn't much data collection. The situation is, you immediately form an opinion without really knowing what it's based on. This could be the magic Ni "just knowing", but
Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail. We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result. We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context.
could just as easily cover it - in the context of a nightclub the guy's behaviour was acceptable, in "real life" it is not.

That you'd choose to e-mail your friends on the same campus strongly points to you being an I, but I'm not entirely convinced. Socially probably (you say you are and have no reason to lie) but in MBTI terms maybe not.

Another thing I've noticed in your posts is an interesting choice of words along with accurate punctuation. How much proof reading do you do before posting? Is it important that your posts are accurate? Why?
 
#23 ·
Again, I'm not going to know what the functions are just from the what, it's in the why.

That you relate to Se in both examples suggests you use it, where an INFP does not.

Are you more likely to be factually honest with a stranger or someone you know well? It's often easier to be harsher with someone you may never see again compared to a friend you don't want to upset, but conversely you may be more relaxed with friends and more able to speak without thinking. Only you will know which is true for you.

In both of your "events" there isn't much data collection. The situation is, you immediately form an opinion without really knowing what it's based on. This could be the magic Ni "just knowing", but
could just as easily cover it - in the context of a nightclub the guy's behaviour was acceptable, in "real life" it is not.

That you'd choose to e-mail your friends on the same campus strongly points to you being an I, but I'm not entirely convinced. Socially probably (you say you are and have no reason to lie) but in MBTI terms maybe not.

Another thing I've noticed in your posts is an interesting choice of words along with accurate punctuation. How much proof reading do you do before posting? Is it important that your posts are accurate? Why?
Ahh yeas the why? I get it now, it's not just about the actions but the motivation behind them.

My motivations behind the second event, the one about my friends’ housemates, was the fact that I have experienced bullying in school and in the workplace. I could relate to how they were feeling because I remembered feeling the same way. I also know that at their age I didn't have much confidence to stand up for myself and I always felt that because I am a sensitive person I was just overreacting. It was when they spoke to me a second time about the situation that I decided to do something. I could clearly see how upset they were and one of them was close to tears. I think if she had cried I would have cried too because I felt so involved.

They needed someone to stand up for them and guide them and because I felt so involved I felt it was my responsibility to help them.

I do lots of proofreading...I'm a bit of a perfectionist and there are some words I spell wrong a lot so I have to proof read everything I write to make sure I have spelt them correctly. Like lose, for some reason I spell loose! Drives me nuts. I even copy and paste my posts into word before I post them to check if I've missed any mistakes...

When you say I use an 'interesting choice of words' what do you mean? Can you give me examples? I'd love to know what they are.
 
#25 ·
umbrellasky said:
My motivations behind the second event, the one about my friends’ housemates, was the fact that I have experienced bullying in school and in the workplace. I could relate to how they were feeling because I remembered feeling the same way. I also know that at their age I didn't have much confidence to stand up for myself and I always felt that because I am a sensitive person I was just overreacting. It was when they spoke to me a second time about the situation that I decided to do something. I could clearly see how upset they were and one of them was close to tears. I think if she had cried I would have cried too because I felt so involved.
I can't see this as anything but Fi - you are putting yourself in their shoes and knowing how they are feeling based on how you would. Though this could be Si reliving a past experience, remembering how bad it felt and some other function deciding how to act based on that. Even hard logical consistency INTJs can see the advantages of happy friends and would act to make them so...

umbrellasky said:
I do lots of proofreading...I'm a bit of a perfectionist and there are some words I spell wrong a lot so I have to proof read everything I write to make sure I have spelt them correctly. Like lose, for some reason I spell loose! Drives me nuts. I even copy and paste my posts into word before I post them to check if I've missed any mistakes...
You missed the why again :laughing:


Your "interesting" language (not just choices of words, my bad):-

They haven't never met before it was a spontaneous moment. - "spontaneous event" sounds more natural? or just "it was spontaneous"?

From my perspective I didn't expect anything to develop from that. - Not needed? Nothing wrong with the sentence, it's just slightly weird :happy:

I still have the urge to speak to my other two friends, they are 4 years younger than me and I suppose I feel like I need to give them my perspective on the events that happened. - "view of events" saves two words at the end, or you could say "view" in place of perspective. This is one of your longest sentences yet you extend it further unecessarily to use a more precise word. This is definitely something Ti people worry about, I'm pretty sure Fi does too but again I have no link.

people are constantly moving around briefly saying hi and then wondering off - should be wandering, what is your reaction on being corrected?

I'm going to say something and I don't want you to think I am having a go because I'm not. However I feel like I need to say this. - why not comma but? You didn't run out of breath (although you have not confirmed you aren't a heavy smoker so maybe you did :crazy:) You rarely use long conjoined sentences, I'm pretty sure I've read this is linked to S types but can't find proof.


Should I look in other threads for more or do you see what I mean?


That post on Introvert/Extrovert is all well and good but it doesn't really work as the I/E doesn't really relate to any functions. Have a search in the ENTP forums and you'll find plenty of posts about not being sociable. Their dominant Ne will just as happily absorb external information from anything such as animals, technology or reading but that's still external stimulus so they are extroverts even though many have problems relating to people and few friends. I've not hung round much in other extrovert forums, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are similar traits to be found, probably in all EXXPs as they have extroverted data gathering (forgot the correct term :blushed:) not extroverted judging as primary.

umbrellasky said:
They needed someone to stand up for them and guide them and because I felt so involved I felt it was my responsibility to help them.
But you're not a "doer", right? :wink:
 
#26 ·
I can't see this as anything but Fi - you are putting yourself in their shoes and knowing how they are feeling based on how you would. Though this could be Si reliving a past experience, remembering how bad it felt and some other function deciding how to act based on that. Even hard logical consistency INTJs can see the advantages of happy friends and would act to make them so...

You missed the why again :laughing:


Your "interesting" language (not just choices of words, my bad):-

They haven't never met before it was a spontaneous moment. - "spontaneous event" sounds more natural? or just "it was spontaneous"?

From my perspective I didn't expect anything to develop from that. - Not needed? Nothing wrong with the sentence, it's just slightly weird :happy:

I still have the urge to speak to my other two friends, they are 4 years younger than me and I suppose I feel like I need to give them my perspective on the events that happened. - "view of events" saves two words at the end, or you could say "view" in place of perspective. This is one of your longest sentences yet you extend it further unecessarily to use a more precise word. This is definitely something Ti people worry about, I'm pretty sure Fi does too but again I have no link.

people are constantly moving around briefly saying hi and then wondering off - should be wandering, what is your reaction on being corrected?

I'm going to say something and I don't want you to think I am having a go because I'm not. However I feel like I need to say this. - why not comma but? You didn't run out of breath (although you have not confirmed you aren't a heavy smoker so maybe you did :crazy:) You rarely use long conjoined sentences, I'm pretty sure I've read this is linked to S types but can't find proof.


Should I look in other threads for more or do you see what I mean?


That post on Introvert/Extrovert is all well and good but it doesn't really work as the I/E doesn't really relate to any functions. Have a search in the ENTP forums and you'll find plenty of posts about not being sociable. Their dominant Ne will just as happily absorb external information from anything such as animals, technology or reading but that's still external stimulus so they are extroverts even though many have problems relating to people and few friends. I've not hung round much in other extrovert forums, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are similar traits to be found, probably in all EXXPs as they have extroverted data gathering (forgot the correct term :blushed:) not extroverted judging as primary.

But you're not a "doer", right? :wink:
wow I suck at grammar (that is my reaction on being corrected lol). I'm not sure why I use short sentences. I've noticed in my creative writing that I find dialogue much easier to write than descriptions. Writing descriptions is a little boring.

My true reaction to being corrected is that I feel a little embarrassed at how appalling my grammar is, even after checking it so much! I suppose that's why I'm such a perfectionist, because I don't want anyone to make assumptions about me based on my grammar, punctuation and spelling.

I've never thought of myself as being a 'doer'...I usually just go with the flow. Although at my last place of work, once I had settled into my role, I pretty much sorted out all of the procedures and wrotes lists of instructions on how to do things. It was a mess when I started there and I hated the thought of someone else taking over my role having to put up with that. It was quite enjoyable sorting everything out.

Another reason for not thinking I'm extrovert is that I need lots of time alone to reflect on things. Being around people all the time makes me irritable and drains me. I also find it difficult to open up to people about my inner most thoughts and feelings, even to my own family.

Have you come to any conclusions on what my type could be? I have had INFP and ISFP suggested to me. I had a look at ISFJ and related found that I related to that description too. It's all very confusing!
 
#27 · (Edited)
umbrellasky said:
I've noticed in my creative writing that I find dialogue much easier to write than descriptions. Writing descriptions is a little boring.
Sounds F - people focused, where descriptions are more factual and T like.

umbrellasky said:
Another reason for not thinking I'm extrovert is that I need lots of time alone to reflect on things. Being around people all the time makes me irritable and drains me.
You're still focusing on the social side of extroversion. You really are attached to your I :laughing: If you're an E you will be a P, your main judging function will still be introverted but ideas will come from outside... That is assuming you follow the model using your primary function being backed up by the secondary not the tertiary of course.

umbrellasky said:
I also find it difficult to open up to people about my inner most thoughts and feelings, even to my own family.
edit - corrected Fe is often associated with expressing personal feelings so this fits well. end edit

umbrellasky said:
My true reaction to being corrected is that I feel a little embarrassed at how appalling my grammar is, even after checking it so much! I suppose that's why I'm such a perfectionist, because I don't want anyone to make assumptions about me based on my grammar, punctuation and spelling.
You are aware how many errors I found? One, and that wasn't grammar it was a valid word out by just one letter! I'm also a perfectionist though, so I have an understanding of the problem but I have no idea if it's the same understanding you have. I'd suggest the perfectionism is related to the inability to express yourself too - you would love to but fear you will fail to be clear or convincing enough and be judged down for it? Or maybe you're reluctant to because you don't have a rigid view of the world? This may well be my Fi projecting onto you, so feel free to argue. Or if you'd prefer trying to explain why you have problems expressing yourself feel free to PM me (I'm assuming you wont write about this here for fear of mass judgment, but when writing something out I learn more about myself than just thinking it so it might help. Feel free to post it here too, if you are feeling brave :happy:)

umbrellasky said:
Have you come to any conclusions on what my type could be?
:laughing: the only person who can decide is you. You really need to think about how far back you've been judging people against your view of "right" compared to how often you've judged stuff based on cold logic, which is very much easier said than done. Then which you have been more keen to tell people what to do based on.

Also we need some more about your information gathering rather than judging. Do you like to discuss your ideas before deciding what's "true" or do you make a decision then try to convince someone you are right? Do you ever argue for the side you probably don't believe in, just to get more support for what you think you do?
 
#28 ·
Sounds F - people focused, where descriptions are more factual and T like.

You're still focusing on the social side of extroversion. You really are attached to your I :laughing: If you're an E you will be a P, your main judging function will still be introverted but ideas will come from outside... That is assuming you follow the model using your primary function being backed up by the secondary not the tertiary of course.
I suppose I'm attached to the I because I thought at least I knew that about myself :laughing:

Fi is often associated with expressing personal feelings so I'm somewhat shocked by this.
I suppose I'm going by what my family have said to me about this. They say that they don't know much about me and that the opinions I express are never my own. I have opinions of my own but I'm scared to share them because I might be wrong, or someone might express a better argument and make me look stupid. So I wait until I know everything about a subject before setting myself in stone.

You are aware how many errors I found? One, and that wasn't grammar it was a valid word out by just one letter! I'm also a perfectionist though, so I have an understanding of the problem but I have no idea if it's the same understanding you have. I'd suggest the perfectionism is related to the inability to express yourself too - you would love to but fear you will fail to be clear or convincing enough and be judged down for it? Or maybe you're reluctant to because you don't have a rigid view of the world? This may well be my Fi projecting onto you, so feel free to argue. Or if you'd prefer trying to explain why you have problems expressing yourself feel free to PM me (I'm assuming you wont write about this here for fear of mass judgment, but when writing something out I learn more about myself than just thinking it so it might help. Feel free to post it here too, if you are feeling brave :happy:)
A bit of both. My past experience with trying to express myself verbally is that no one is listening, or I get talked over by people who are supposed to be my friends. So instead I used to be a bit of a joker amongst my friends because the only way to get their attention was to act like an idiot. This is why I prefer one to one friendships where I can have a proper conversation with someone.

I'm not sure if I have a rigid view of the world. I fee like I'm constantly learning new things about myself and about the world around me that to have a rigid view seems silly because things are changing all the time.


Also we need some more about your information gathering rather than judging. Do you like to discuss your ideas before deciding what's "true" or do you make a decision then try to convince someone you are right? Do you ever argue for the side you probably don't believe in, just to get more support for what you think you do?
My brother is the person I discuss my ideas with. Sometimes he will give me feedback but most of the time he just sits there whilst I ramble on and eventually come to my own conclusions. I think talking about ideas out loud helps me to organise them.

I don't think I've ever argued for a side I don't believe in. I might have looked at both sides to see which has the better argument and I often refer back and forth between the two to see if I have missed anything important or anything that might change which side I'm on.

If it is an argument between two people I will try to get each person to see each others point of view even if I know which side I'm on.

There are some subjects that I have a very strong opinion about like fox hunting and no one can change my view on that. I can understand that farmers need to protect their livestock, I just don't see why they have to go out hunting foxes on land where there is no livestock, and the foxes they are killing have done nothing wrong. If a fox kills your livestock then either make your fields more secure or go out and kill that fox, do not turn it into a sport that happens every year where innocent foxes are killed for doing nothing. (I don't know if adding my opinion is relevent, but I thought I'd add it anyway just in case it helps).
 
#29 ·
asmit127 said:
Fi is often associated with expressing personal feelings so I'm somewhat shocked by this.
I was wrong - it's Fe that talks about such things so I've corrected that post.

The Form of the Inferior - ITPs - Typology Central

Emotionalism

Effective dominant Extraverted Feeling types readily share their values with others and are comfortable expressing their emotions. In the grip of inferior Extraverted Feeling, Introverted Thinking types may not differentiate between the expression of Feeling values and the expression of emotion. We may witness confusion between Feeling as a judging function and emotion as a state of physiological arousal. Jung (1976b) was explicit in his differentiation of the two:

"What I mean by feeling in contrast to thinking is a judgment of value; agreeable or disagreeable, good or bad, and so on. Feeling so defined is not an emotion or affect, which is, as the words convey, an involuntary manifestation. Feeling as I mean it is a judgment without any of the obvious bodily reactions that characterize an emotion. Like thinking, it is a rational function." (p. 219)
So that's another tick for Fi. I'd suggest you definitely aren't an INFJ :happy:

umbrellasky said:
I suppose I'm going by what my family have said to me about this. They say that they don't know much about me and that the opinions I express are never my own. I have opinions of my own but I'm scared to share them because I might be wrong, or someone might express a better argument and make me look stupid. So I wait until I know everything about a subject before setting myself in stone.
...
I'm not sure if I have a rigid view of the world. I fee like I'm constantly learning new things about myself and about the world around me that to have a rigid view seems silly because things are changing all the time.
...
My brother is the person I discuss my ideas with. Sometimes he will give me feedback but most of the time he just sits there whilst I ramble on and eventually come to my own conclusions. I think talking about ideas out loud helps me to organise them.

I don't think I've ever argued for a side I don't believe in. I might have looked at both sides to see which has the better argument and I often refer back and forth between the two to see if I have missed anything important or anything that might change which side I'm on.
Openess to possibilities and discussing ideas to clarify is N or S e, I think as it's theoretical it's more N but still looking into the N/S divide for myself. I'm pretty sure you are an IXFP from what you've said though. If what you have said is actually the truth... (Ne has a habit of expressing ideas to test them, and might be so open to ideas you don't know the truth without lots of self analysis) I was given this link this morning and found it interesting, do you relate more to the INxP or ISxP? Tertiary Temptation

umbrellasky said:
There are some subjects that I have a very strong opinion about like fox hunting and no one can change my view on that. I can understand that farmers need to protect their livestock, I just don't see why they have to go out hunting foxes on land where there is no livestock, and the foxes they are killing have done nothing wrong. If a fox kills your livestock then either make your fields more secure or go out and kill that fox, do not turn it into a sport that happens every year where innocent foxes are killed for doing nothing. (I don't know if adding my opinion is relevent, but I thought I'd add it anyway just in case it helps).
Proving you aren't joking about having strong opinions isn't a bad thing, but I'd hope you weren't lying anyway so it wasn't really required :happy: What I did notice was a sentence with two commas in it - and one of them shouldn't be there (the one after the second livestock) :crazy: I wonder if you did the long sentence consciously to show you can but it's really unnatural to you or if you are just so sure of your views on the subject you didn't feel the need to proof read it. If I were to make a mistake it would be the latter. This is not a criticism, but an observation - it did not disrupt your point so was not a problem :happy:
 
#33 ·
penchant said:
I have them all in my email and can paste them here when I find the time.
That would be useful, thanks :happy:

umbrellasky said:
*wipes brow* that's cool. I don't have them in my email because I turned that function off...my inbox gets too full as it is :laughing:
Turned it off? I don't remember doing so but don't have it switched on either...

Anyway, I remember one interesting thing from the last post - you thought I would like SAW. I would be very interested in how you came to this conclusion - in as much detail as possible. You have done some "data gathering" and made a decision based on it, should be perfect to analyse :happy:
 
#39 ·
That would be useful, thanks :happy:

Turned it off? I don't remember doing so but don't have it switched on either...

Anyway, I remember one interesting thing from the last post - you thought I would like SAW. I would be very interested in how you came to this conclusion - in as much detail as possible. You have done some "data gathering" and made a decision based on it, should be perfect to analyse :happy:
Lol! I have no idea what made me think you liked SAW...hmm...I bet I'm wrong!

Crikey I really don't have a clue what made me say that...maybe because I think your a T and errm your a guy? and my brother is a T and he likes SAW? I don't know...but then again I'm pretty sure his girlfriend is a Feeler and she likes SAW so that doesn't really work.

You said something about having ideas about why I disliked those kinds of films and why she likes them but doesn't like Slumdog...and I think you said something about knowing a information about the creators of the SAW films?? So that made me think that you must have either watched them or are interested in the psychology behind them? Or did I just invent that?

So...do you like SAW?? :laughing:
 
#35 ·
by kateykinz @ Nov 21, 12.27am

***************
Umbrellasky - don't rule out INFJ. First off, I would have reacted in EXACTLY the same way as you in college about the bullying thing. Nowadays I would perhaps spend a bit more time trying to persuade the friends to act on their own behalf, but if they didn't and the situation wasn't resolving itself then I would still jump in on their behalf and do what you did. It is a common thing for INFJs to kick up a storm about something that pushes a button that is particularly sensitive to them, especially if it means fighting on behalf of somebody else, rather than for yourself. Hence the name "protectors" - we feel the need to protect those who cannot or will not protect themselves, but we're pretty sucky at getting the kind of motivation to protect ourselves, because we are Fe users opposed to Fi users.

Secondly, I have a lot of trouble communicating my innermost feelings to other people, and again that seems to be a common theme on the INFJ forum, as you probably know. Sure, people can get an idea of how I feel and I'm not afraid to show it, it's just that my feelings are likely so complex and contradictory that they are often inexplicable to myself, let alone other people. As I feel the need to analyze them deeply to find out where they came from and what they mean, I won't try to communicate them unless I am absolutely sure about what it is I'm feeling. If pushed to share them, I will often give some approximation of the feeling, rather than the whole kit and caboodle. I think this comes from Fe being auxillary, so nothing that is expressed comes out until it is analyzed to death by Ni first. The quote that Asmit used to rule out Fe should not really be used as a reference point for that, as it alludes to the ease of communication of feelings for dominant Fe users, not auxillary Fe users.

Thirdly, I'm totally with you on the fox-hunting issue too. I can understand the debate from the fox's point of view, and from the farmers point of view, and my point of view lies midway between them. The fox is just living, it has no idea what theft or murder or land ownership is, it's just following its primal nature and should not be blamed for its actions. The farmer has the right to defend his possessions and livelihood and territory so should be able to shoot the fox that kills his livestock. But the farmer is an educated and evolved man, and therefore should not use the fox's destruction of his possessions as an excuse to go one step further and persecute all foxes in the name of sport / culture. In other words, the farmer, having the ability to empathise with the animals, should take the moral high ground. Therefore I don't agree with fox-hunting. I think that is very much Fe talking - the morality of the action is decided upon only by referencing the external data and taking into consideration the evolution of our culture. In my opinion there can be no morality without society - everyone would just do what they want. Fi, on the other hand would say either "Killing animals is cruel, unnecessary and inhumane. It is wrong. Fox hunting is bad" or "While I don't necessarily like the idea of it, I totally respect the farmer's right to do what he wants - there is no moral right or wrong here." (or, of course, "There's nothing wrong with killing animals, they are beneath us and have no rights afforded to them").
 
#36 ·
by asmit127 @ Nov 21, 3.08am

First what's with the exclamation marks?


---Quote (Originally by kateykinz)---
umbreallasky - don't rule out INFJ
---End Quote---
Absolutely, I'm only guessing what's going on in your mind and am far from confident. We are still discussing only a very small part of your life too :happy:


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
I find it hard to relate to just a description I need it to be applied to an actual event.
---End Quote---
I'm not sure how this fits with being an INFJ, but intuitives are usually good at imagining things where sensors focus on what actually is/was. Have you looked into temperments? I've got you pegged as a concrete utilitarian because you "went behind your friends backs" to get results and claim to not talk about emotions, but you may know better :happy: Four Temperaments (Keirsey Temperament Website - Overview of the Four Temperaments)


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
Especially the bit where it mentions 'integrity' I think integrity is important and I do not like being accused of being a liar or of doing something I haven't done.
---End Quote---
Are you thinking of integrity in the same way as Nova? You seem to be fearing the judgment of others rather than yourself?


---Quote (Originally by Nova)---
Fi goes beyond people and 'what I like'. It's almost aligned with conscience (either going with it or against it). An inner authority of sorts that paves morality; 'what is good', 'what ought be' and what is more important or worthy than other things. ... I don't just have values, "I must become them". There's a tug of integrity; if I don't align with what I am guided with within, I must answer to my conscience (a conscience which reacts with shame among other negative consequences). Integrity to this internal self or super ego is important.
---End Quote---

---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
I was brought up to treat all animals fairly. Fox hunting just seems cruel to me and I can't understand why anyone would get any enjoyment out of murdering an innocent animal. The same with bull fighting where they end up spearing the animal. It sickens me. How can they inflict pain on something like that? How can the audience find it amusing?
---End Quote---
Could this be Se, taking on the already existing views of others as your own? Without the first sentence no, but adding it completely changes my interpretation especially as you put it before all your personal reasoning. What is your view on horror movies?


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
I don't, they start off fun but when I can't work them out it just frustrates me and I give up.
---End Quote---
So you don't have to become at least competent at doing everything you try? How do you balance that with perfectionism?
 
#37 ·
by umbrellasky @ Nov 21, 12.53pm

---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
First what's with the exclamation marks?
---End Quote---
Are you asking me this? I have a habit of using them when I'm feeling excited or enthusiastic about something...I can't help it, I feel the need to show my enthusiasm :laughing: I don't know why...perhaps to excite the person reading it..


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
Absolutely, I'm only guessing what's going on in your mind and am far from confident. We are still discussing only a very small part of your life too :happy:

I'm not sure how this fits with being an INFJ, but intuitives are usually good at imagining things where sensors focus on what actually is/was. Have you looked into temperments? I've got you pegged as a concrete utilitarian because you "went behind your friends backs" to get results and claim to not talk about emotions, but you may know better :happy: Four Temperaments (Keirsey Temperament Website - Overview of the Four Temperaments)
---End Quote---
I feel torn between As Concrete Cooperators, Guardians; Abstract Cooperators, Idealists and As Concrete Utilitarians, Artisans. I can see myself in all of them. I'll bold the parts that apply to me:

As Concrete Cooperators, Guardians speak mostly of their duties and responsibilities, of what they can keep an eye on and take good care of, and they're* careful to obey the laws, follow the rules, and respect the rights of others.*

As Abstract Cooperators, Idealists speak mostly of *what they hope for* and imagine might be possible for people, and they want to* act in good conscience, always trying to reach their goals without compromising their personal code of ethics.*


As Concrete Utilitarians, Artisans speak mostly about what they see right in front of them, about what they can get their hands on, and they will do whatever works, whatever gives them a quick, effective payoff, even if they have to bend the rules.

For this last one I wasn't sure what did or didn't apply to me. I don't know if the following event might help with this:

In my creative writing class the other day we were asked to get into small groups and were given a list of instructions. We were given the following scenario:

You go caving in the Cheddar Gorge with a group of 5 people and 1 guide you have never met before when the entrance to your cave collapses. You do not know if you guide is dead under the rubble or trapped on the other side. How are you going to escape?

You must first individually list what you will do and then discuss your ideas with a group.

I listed pretty obvious things such as: check to see if everyone is all right, does anyone have a light, check to see if the rubble can be removed safely - if not then see if there is another way out etc.

When my group talked about our ideas we all have pretty much the same thing. However as the tutor went around the rest of the class there were some pretty crazy ideas coming out such as:

One person said that they would eat their way out because the name of the cave 'Cheddar' Gorge made them think it was made of cheese.

Another group said they would stay in the same place and wait for help to come to them and whilst they are waiting they would play games.

I thought my ideas were so boring! The tutor said our group were very 'military' in our approach.



---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
Are you thinking of integrity in the same way as Nova? You seem to be fearing the judgment of others rather than yourself?
---End Quote---
Probably not...I find these descriptions confusing and I misunderstand them, hence why I can never choose what applies to me. I suppose I do fear other peoples judgements, I like to be liked.


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
Could this be Se, taking on the already existing views of others as your own? Without the first sentence no, but adding it completely changes my interpretation especially as you put it before all your personal reasoning. What is your view on horror movies?
---End Quote---
I can't stand horror movies. They are either predictable and aimed at teenagers, or are too violent and I just don't see the point in spending time watching something that I don't enjoy and that isn't going to help me learn anything. I also find some of the scary, the supernatural ones in particular. I don't know why, they just creep me out. I like films that leaving me thinking about life and death in a different way. Or are uplifting and leave me feeling happy.


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
So you don't have to become at least competent at doing everything you try? How do you balance that with perfectionism?
---End Quote---
It depends if I care enough about it. Maths and puzzles I don't really care about so I don't feel so bad not being competent at it. I haven't always been like this though. I tried really hard at Maths in school and was determined to pass the course and I did. I found it very frustrating and I can remember crying a lot because I just didn't 'get' it. Even today if somone asks me to work something out for them I panic a little bit inside, but I'm more open to telling people not to come to me if they want help working out a sum.

Anything creative: music, art and writing, I expect to be good at. So if I'm not good at something within the arts then it upsets me because art is the one thing that I'm sure of, the one thing I can't fail at because then I'll have nothing.
 
#38 ·
by asmit127 @ 4.45pm

---Quote (Originally by penchant)---
Ok, I see the point about INFP now. But INFP/INFJ? Hmm... :mellow: Sorry, don't let me interrupt you...
---End Quote---
Are you really that sure on the N/S? Fi/Fe maybe, but I'm really not sold on the N. Please do interrupt - more opinions cannot be a bad thing :happy:



---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
I have a habit of using [exclamation marks] when I'm feeling excited or enthusiastic about something...I can't help it, I feel the need to show my enthusiasm :laughing: I don't know why...perhaps to excite the person reading it..
---End Quote---
So, you aren't really passionate about foxes? You didn't use any there... Or maybe you were in someway frustrated that I didn't share my views on the subject, and hoped by being more enthusiastic I would?


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
As Concrete Cooperators, Guardians speak mostly of their duties and responsibilities, of what they can keep an eye on and take good care of, and they're *careful to obey the laws, follow the rules, and respect the rights of others*.
---End Quote---
You thought going behind your friends back to get help was respecting them? Or maybe this act was just out of character for you, which would make it a bad think to be trying to type yourself on...


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
I feel torn between As Concrete Cooperators, Guardians; Abstract Cooperators, Idealists and As Concrete Utilitarians, Artisans. I can see myself in all of them.
---End Quote---
There were longer explanations above covering abstract/concrete communication and utilitarian/cooperative action, you're supposed to pick one of each and then look below to see what it matches to. Did you skip the top? >From what you've bolded you want to be a cooperator, which is what appears to be "nice" but don't forget this isn't about what you want to be but what you are.


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
You go caving in the Cheddar Gorge
---End Quote---
I got excited at this, thinking you lived near me but

---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
One person said that they would eat their way out because the name of the cave 'Cheddar' Gorge made them think it was made of cheese.
---End Quote---
Suggests otherwise. They were right though, the cheese comes from a small town near the caves :happy:

Anyway, that's rather off topic...


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
I listed pretty obvious things such as: check to see if everyone is all right, does anyone have a light, check to see if the rubble can be removed safely - if not then see if there is another way out etc.

I thought my ideas were so boring! The tutor said our group were very 'military' in our approach.
---End Quote---
I know it's a mean stereotype, but isn't boring what Ns say about Ss way of thinking? You wouldn't be questioning why the cave collapsed or imagining a higher power testing you, you'd be straight on to the practicalities of the situation.


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
Another group said they would stay in the same place and wait for help to come to them and whilst they are waiting they would play games.
---End Quote---
A whole group managed to come to this delusional answer? What games can they play in the dark, and if they're going to stay there why not try digging out first :laughing: Though this was creative writing not survival skills, so maybe they were trying to be funny...


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
Probably not...I find these descriptions confusing and I misunderstand them, hence why I can never choose what applies to me.
---End Quote---
OK, simpler language needed :happy:

Fi is about knowing for yourself what is good/evil or right/wrong. If you do something while alone that no-one will find out about that you consider "bad" you will judge yourself. Like accidentally kicking your pet rabbit across the room (sounds nasty, but I do this quite often - he runs where my foot is going!). The rabbit is fine, no-one saw you do it to tell you off or dislike you for being cruel to animals yet you would still feel bad for not living up to your expectations of caring for the rabbit. This example would probably show the Fi in most people, but you need to think about bigger things in the same way. Sorry I don't have any useful examples :mellow:


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
I can't stand horror movies. They are either predictable and aimed at teenagers, or are too violent and I just don't see the point in spending time watching something that I don't enjoy and that isn't going to help me learn anything. I also find some of them scary, the supernatural ones in particular. I don't know why, they just creep me out. I like films that leave me thinking about life and death in a different way, or are uplifting and leave me feeling happy.
---End Quote---
So you have a moral problem when it comes to people enjoying the suffering of animals but not people watching people suffering in films? You don't like it, but there's nothing about "how can anyone like it". What do your parents think of horror I wonder? Or your animal loving friends?


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
It depends if I care enough about it. Maths and puzzles I don't really care about so I don't feel so bad not being competent at it. I haven't always been like this though. I tried really hard at Maths in school and was determined to pass the course and I did. I found it very frustrating and I can remember crying a lot because I just didn't 'get' it. Even today if somone asks me to work something out for them I panic a little bit inside, but I'm more open to telling people not to come to me if they want help working out a sum.

Anything creative: music, art and writing, I expect to be good at. So if I'm not good at something within the arts then it upsets me because art is the one thing that I'm sure of, the one thing I can't fail at because then I'll have nothing.
---End Quote---
So you aren't a complete perfectionist (lucky you :happy:). This sounds like Te to me, you know what you're good at and your limitations. In every INTJ (Te dominant) profile there is something along the lines of "they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know." You do creative, you don't do maths - fair enough :happy:
 
#40 ·
by umbrellasky @ Nov 21, 6.24pm

So, you aren't really passionate about foxes? You didn't use any there... Or maybe you were in someway frustrated that I didn't share my views on the subject, and hoped by being more enthusiastic I would? [/quote]

Hmm I think maybe I felt that I should 'lower the tone' for this thread lol.


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
You thought going behind your friends back to get help was respecting them? Or maybe this act was just out of character for you, which would make it a bad think to be trying to type yourself on...
---End Quote---
I think most of the time I won't act on someone elses behalf, instead I will guide them and expect them to do it themselves. I think the example above is a situation where I knew that my friends weren't going to seek help so I decided to do it for them.

I asked my brother if he thought the way I acted was out of character and he said "no it wasn't out of character for you" and I asked "why?" and he said "because you're a quiet upriser" and I said "quiet upriser?" and he said "Yeah, it was against what you believe so you acted. Quietly. You do things quietly without people noticing."


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
There were longer explanations above covering abstract/concrete communication and utilitarian/cooperative action, you're supposed to pick one of each and then look below to see what it matches to. Did you skip the top? >From what you've bolded you want to be a cooperator, which is what appears to be "nice" but don't forget this isn't about what you want to be but what you are.
---End Quote---
I didn't skip the top I breezed through it lol. Ok I'll read it again properly this time.

I would say I'm more abstract because I like to talk about religion and the possibilities of there being a God etc and about evolution and the universe. I also find conspiracy theories quite interesting to talk about. I don't know if this counts as abstract?

In day to day life I will talk about concrete things because most abstract things are not appropriate for the situations I find myself in. Unless I come across somene who is more open with their ideas then I will join in. I enjoy talking about abstract things.

This is so difficult. Perhaps I speak concretly and think abstractly? Is that possible haha.

I asked my brother and he said I'm a bit of both. Grr even he can't help me. He then said perhaps more of the first one 'concrete'.

The second part: Utilitarian vs. Cooperative

I'd say I'm more Cooperative. I follow rules. For example when I'm driving I keep to the speed limit and I keep to the 'rules of the road'. I drive the correct way around a car park even if it is empty. My brother once said to me "why didn't you just go out the other entrance? It was closer." So now I will go the 'wrong' way out of a car park if it's not busy. It feels odd but gets easier the more I do it.

I'd say I'm a very agreeable person that does what she's asked to do. Never rebels and never gets into trouble...



---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
I got excited at this, thinking you lived near me but
Suggests otherwise. They were right though, the cheese comes from a small town near the caves :happy:

Anyway, that's rather off topic...
---End Quote---
So you live in Somerset? I live in Dorset so not that far away. :laughing:


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
I know it's a mean stereotype, but isn't boring what Ns say about Ss way of thinking? You wouldn't be questioning why the cave collapsed or imagining a higher power testing you, you'd be straight on to the practicalities of the situation.
---End Quote---
In general I'm the sort of person that is happy for others to take the lead but I've often found that in a 'panic' situation I'm able to keep a level head and get things sorted.


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
A whole group managed to come to this delusional answer? What games can they play in the dark, and if they're going to stay there why not try digging out first :laughing: Though this was creative writing not survival skills, so maybe they were trying to be funny...
---End Quote---
Yeah a whole group...there were 5 of them. Another group even suggest cannibalism if there were stuck in there for a while...We were being shown how we can work in a team for one of our assignments where we have to work in a group. And there are a few people in my class who like to think they are 'funny' when they are just silly...

OK, simpler language needed :happy:



---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
Fi is about knowing for yourself what is good/evil or right/wrong. If you do something while alone that no-one will find out about that you consider "bad" you will judge yourself. Like accidentally kicking your pet rabbit across the room (sounds nasty, but I do this quite often - he runs where my foot is going!). The rabbit is fine, no-one saw you do it to tell you off or dislike you for being cruel to animals yet you would still feel bad for not living up to your expectations of caring for the rabbit. This example would probably show the Fi in most people, but you need to think about bigger things in the same way. Sorry I don't have any useful examples :mellow:
---End Quote---
Thanks, that's much easier to understand. I would definitely feel bad if I hurt my cat by accident...and it has happened. Even when my family aren't looking, I feel awful.

I can't think of any bigger things in the same way either. I will have a think about it.


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
So you have a moral problem when it comes to people enjoying the suffering of animals but not people watching people suffering in films? You don't like it, but there's nothing about "how can anyone like it". What do your parents think of horror I wonder? Or your animal loving friends?
---End Quote---
Oh I definitely think "How can anyone like it?" My brothers girlfriend couldn't watch Slumdog Millionaire all the way through because when it got to the point where that boy was being blinded she walked out of the room. Yet she will quiet happily watch the SAW movies. I don't get it. I found the scene in Slumdog very upsetting but I could still watch the rest of the film. I can't watch SAW because I think it is sick and the creators must be sick in the head to have come up with the ideas!


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
So you aren't a complete perfectionist (lucky you :happy:). This sounds like Te to me, you know what you're good at and your limitations. In every INTJ (Te dominant) profile there is something along the lines of "they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know." You do creative, you don't do maths - fair enough :happy:
---End Quote---
I think because I'm such a perfectionist I've had to tell myself that I have limitations just so I don't get so upset and stuck on things. This doesn't always work though.

However I'm not completely like that Te description. Even if I'm not sure about something and someone asks for help I'll state that I don't know much about it but I'll still try and help.
 
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