Introverted Sensing

Introverted Sensing

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This is a discussion on Introverted Sensing within the Cognitive Functions forums, part of the Personality Type Forums category; I hope you don't mind, @ Conclusion , but I was fascinated by your explanation of Introverted Sensing, in another ...

  1. #1
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Introverted Sensing

    I hope you don't mind, @Conclusion, but I was fascinated by your explanation of Introverted Sensing, in another thread, and I wanted to discuss it further without taking away from that other thread.

    As silly as it may sound, are you able to provide any concrete examples of how you use these templates? Are you able to clarify what you mean by "impressionistic templates"?

    Your explanation below is very much similar to what I would call "the mindset," "frames of mind," or "hats", which are different ways of looking at the present. I can't quite think of an example of what I mean right now, but I will try later.

    Do other Si users agree with what is described in the quote below?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conclusion View Post
    To my definition of Si -- it's a very idiosyncratic one, and still a bit in development so I'll take the opportunity to expand on in here and ask for folks' reactions. :P (As are all my functional un-concepts; I've read others' descriptions, but honestly I just started with what they're drawn to, how they attend to it, how they tend to be expressed, and refined as I go by listening to people. To me the 'authoritative framework' of JCF is very minimal, and filled in as I go with my own and others' experience.) Yet Si seems to be an especially difficult function to characterize well; of the descriptions I've read, if they meaningfully apply to me then they aren't very thorough, and if they're thorough and predictive then they don't meaningfully apply to me.

    You mentioned Nardi, so I just skimmed his definitions in his two books; they seem to be 1/3 right, 1/3 inadequate, and 1/3 WTF no. In particular for his "snapshot of cognition," I have no idea what "warning mode" or "investing for material security" means (is he abstracting from Si-doms who are also phobic sp 6s?) and I'd swap out the "predictable standard" for the following:

    As I see it, the real substance of Si is an enormous network of what you might call "impressionistic templates" for experience, based on / abstracted from your past experience and with which you attend to and internalize the details of what's in front of you. When a situation is new to you, your templates aren't very sophisticated, and it takes a lot of effort to come to grips with things and the conclusions you draw / patterns you see come slowly and are less than profound :P; when you've a lot of experience they're subtle and adept, easily take in the key points, and what's more has a kind of built in structure, a functional interlinkage, that lets you easily anticipate the implications / consequences of what you see as you see it. Thinking with Si feels like summoning and shuffling an enormous mass of these templates, refining / elaborating upon them and playing with that interconnection with the aid of your other functions, until they take on a coherence and a clarity of implication and of consequence. And yet when you express your thoughts the templates themselves don't really show up; INJs will speak in subtle abstract language to convey subtle abstract concepts, but these templates mostly guide and marshall the facts that you present (often not consciously aware of these facts until you need them, at need summoning up just the one to fit that template) as you talk your way through that "clarity of implication." :P

    Indeed, in large part it seems to me that the distinction between Si and Ni is that where Ni has few concepts (and are highly aware of them) Si has many templates (and are mostly aware of experience through them); where the meaning / implications of things are clear to Ni-users quickly through Ni and they sometimes struggle with immediate experience on its behalf (and vice versa when healthy), Si-users are attuned to experience and arrive at meaning / implication slowly, and sometimes struggle with meaning / implications on behalf of this attunement. (And vice versa when healthy.)

    But then that's presumably heavily shaped by Ti too; I used that quite heavily for most of my life as my mainstay judgement function, but it takes a certain effort to apply it and bring order to things. These templates are at work even when I don't feel like thinking. :P



  2. #2
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Jung states that this function is an abstraction of sensation, by which he means aesthetic impression. Do you relate to this at all?

  3. #3
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinX View Post
    Jung states that this function is an abstraction of sensation, by which he means aesthetic impression. Do you relate to this at all?
    Yes I do. For example: Say a 5 year old Si-dom walks into a room, this room's walls has shades of primarely blue and some yellow. In this room there are children ages 4-6. At the end of the day the Si-dom has had a really great time. Everything in that room that the Si-dom noticed (colors of the clothes weared by the others, floor patterns and colors, pictures on the walls and its listings, window frames and door colors, toy colors, closets etc etc) is associated with the feelings experienced.

    That is the abstraction of sensation. Colors and forms visually. Hymns and pitch tones auditory. Etc. Everything has a feel. It doesn't just look or sound nice it also feels nice.
    walking tourist, Ollyx2OxenFree and PaladinX thanked this post.

  4. #4
    ISFJ - The Nurturers

    Abstraction of sensation -- kinda. I think even my most imaginative thought is an abstraction from the acts of reading books and problem sets and personal essays and intelligent conversation in ways that, rather to my surprise, they aren't for other people; and my relation to these things seems characteristically aesthetic in ways that are again unusual. And I do think there's something to the idea that "relating to a cup of coffee through a lifetime of abstracted sense impressions of other cups of coffee" is somehow the purest example of my cognition. :P But as you'd imagine when you build an entire mind around abstraction of sensation it ramifies into all manner of things in all manner of subtle ways, and on reflection I think I was chiefly interested in describing the ramification into intellectual / imaginative work.

    "Impressionistic templates" was my attempt to describe the invisible currency / substance / fabric of Si, that which is to Si what concepts are to Ni, the inchoate stuff I'm working with when I think. As I see it they're a kind of skeleton of impression along which you channel new experiences as you attend to / take them in, and grow increasingly more sophisticated and discriminating as you gain familiarity with a subject; and aggregated together they function as a kind of reduction, distillation, of your experience with which you can think without all the unnecessary details of what you saw sprawled about your head and getting in the way. :P Still I'm not terribly (consciously) aware of them (and I only realized I was a Si-dom two weeks ago after considering myself an INTP for most of my life!) so much of my analysis here is a bit inchoate and shot-in-the-dark, and I'd also be quite interested in how other Si-users would describe / refine such things. :P

    I'm not totally sure what you mean by "concrete examples of how I use them," but over breakfast I thought through a response that provides a couple of examples of my own cognition / conversation / imaginative work analyzed in terms of impressionistic templates,

    1) a couple of examples of immediate recall / response to abstract questions,
    2) an example of thinking through a deliberate response / detailed analysis of an abstract question / interesting situation
    3) a couple of examples of how I attend to things on each end of the "refinement and sophistication" continuum
    +) plus a sidenote about the structure / fabric of Si and my understanding of it that I hinted at in the post

    but before I write that out -- is that responding? If so I'll edit or post again later today with all that, but I wanted to check that I understood you first. :P (And a bit dangerous to "call your analyses" like that in any case, but perhaps any discrepancies would themselves be illuminating. :P)
    PaladinX thanked this post.

  5. #5
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    It's funny to me that when I ask for a concrete example, people don't seem to understand what that means. Maybe I'm using it wrong? Although, my psychologist once told me that once you go abstract, you never go back. Being autistic, I tend to be concrete and literal.

    When I ask for a concrete example, I suppose I am looking for a literal, tangible description of how Si manifests. I can understand abstract things, but I need to tie it to something concrete for further examination. So if you can describe how Si manifests in a given context or situation that you can recall and provide as much concrete, literal, tangible data as possible, that would be very much appreciated. Analogies could work too.

    In layman's terms, can you please dumb it down? :D

    Thanks!!
    niffer, chwoey and Conclusion thanked this post.

  6. #6
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers


    I might just be wrong, but maybe Introverted Sensation is just focused on how one interprates something instead of what the object actually is? It would make a lot more sense if it was like that.

  7. #7
    ENTP - The Visionaries

    Quote Originally Posted by St Vual View Post
    I might just be wrong, but maybe Introverted Sensation is just focused on how one interprates something instead of what the object actually is? It would make a lot more sense if it was like that.
    Can you explain what you mean by that?

  8. #8
    ISTJ - The Duty Fulfillers


    Sure thing. To me, it seems like Introverted Sensation strips away the actual object's properties and fills in their own. Such as how one can view a cup as a ball catcher, or something. While with Extroverted Sensation you'd likely see the cup as just a cup.

    Again I could totally be wrong. The idea of Si being like this is literally just something like "hey this likely makes the most sense instead of my previous ideas of what it is". Seeing objects being different than what they literally are, and how they can be many things is a Si-Ne process.
    Lady O.W. Bro, Ollyx2OxenFree, Merihim and 1 others thanked this post.

  9. #9
    INFJ - The Protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by St Vual View Post
    Sure thing. To me, it seems like Introverted Sensation strips away the actual object's properties and fills in their own. Such as how one can view a cup as a ball catcher, or something. While with Extroverted Sensation you'd likely see the cup as just a cup.

    Again I could totally be wrong. The idea of Si being like this is literally just something like "hey this likely makes the most sense instead of my previous ideas of what it is". Seeing objects being different than what they literally are, and how they can be many things is a Si-Ne process.
    The way you describe it is basically what Jung was getting at. A subjectivity of perception. A sort of perception is reality way of looking at things where the actual qualities of the object or experience are downplayed in favor of the impression that object or experience gives off.

    This is probably why people do not have a good way to represent Si (or really any introverted function) in a concrete manner, because it is by its nature subjective and abstract. Because somehow Si got linked to memory and liking old stuff, I think people tend to sort of read too much down that road and associate it all as Si. "I like my grandmother's quilt," therefore I must be Si and stuff like that. Jung's definition if taken by its own account makes absolute sense: that you could either look at the object as it is without projecting anything on it from within, or downplay in favor of the impression the object gives off.
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  10. #10
    Unknown Personality

    @Conclusion

    i've always taken Si to be more along the lines of someone who doesn't see the tree in the forest as "just a tree", but may instead attribute characteristics that don't objectively exist. for example, the combination of light filtering through the leaves combined with the height of the tree may make it seem "imposing", or "malevolent"; the tree itself may take on a sentinel-like appearance, or, the person may just get a "feeling" inspired from the object that changes their sense perception of the object.

    (another example--although it is a rather extreme, "pure" example: "the road may seem as if it's just asphalt and dirt--something without sentience or will--but once the light fades, your sight lessens, and you find yourself alone you'll realize it has indeed taken on a life, a will all it's own. it'll branch and change shape, offering up paths cloaked in the guise of safety. it'll gently prod and coerce you into darkness on an ill-made trail or into the den of a beast. the road is a creature just as much as we, but it is a creature that lacks our moral compunction, our human understanding--it is something that rises with the night, and hunts those unfortunate enough to be caught within it's grasp". again, extreme, but it also clearly shows a subjective form of perception that focuses upon that person's unique sensory abstractions)

    but, that's not to say that what you find yourself falling into isn't a personal "extension" of "distilled Si" (distilled in the way that the idea itself is too pure to fit someone exactly--and that they will most likely build a unique form of their dominant function).

    i am curious though--you said you originally thought you were an INTP, but have now moved on to ISFJ... would you say that your life has been dominated by Ti up until this point, and the development of what could be called Si is really an aux? or would you say it's actually the other way around, and that you began as Si but while developing a mindset in order to differentiate a judging function you over identified with Ti and were temporarily "blinded" from the extent to which you rely upon Si?

    (if this is too all over the place or vague, just ask i'll clarify). :P
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