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This is a discussion on The Tide of Humanity within the Articles forums, part of the Announcements category; complacency = only so many hours in the day to get things done as it is. History shows then when ...

  1. #11

    complacency = only so many hours in the day to get things done as it is.

    History shows then when people are truly unhappy with a system, they will toss it aside. US in 1776, Russia in 1917, and again 1991. Egypt in the last couple years.. Right now Americans aren't unhappy enough with the system.

    But revolutions never live up to their promise. The same breeds of leaders still manipulate the same types of people who follow them like sheep. They just use different language to convince us they aren't like the old guard. And there will still be activists convinced that this sucks, we need to change it, why can't people see that?? etc.. Governments change, but human nature doesn't.
    Humaning, Glor, Glor and 9 others thanked this post.

  2. #12

    I sympathize the worry that is portrayed in your claims, and they are true; seldom many individuals get this far in this pondering and actually passionately express the worry, rather then be distracted by the things in such a complex society based on your predisposed animalistic algorithms. Animal behaviour mixed with logical reasoning, that is a fundamental divide that is a culprit in all these things, the "logical" way of doing things and "moral" way of doing things are only ever the same by extreme coincidence, those "morals" only being a logical interpretation of high we are on with all of our neurochemicals, e.g. serotonin, etc, which originally happened to come to be based on the behaviours that they conjured with respect to increasing the chances of survival and reproduction in the natural environment, when we were animals; we're no longer part of the savanna, but we are curse with the intentions of feral creatures, and even "logical" things are only a means to an animalistic ends.

    Think about it, when has humanity created something because it was purely logical? There is no such thing! You may reach an ends to increase your chances of survival, reproduction, or feeling good (which is a thing that only came about when we got logic - when we could reason our emotions are try to feel certain ones), everything we do is trying to fit more people on earth or veer from natures sustainable systems, etc. You realize the horror in our livelihood, that we are completely selfish, so selfish we will keep destroying the system we are built with correspondence to until it can longer longer sustain us fundamentally, e.g. ozone degradation, phytoplankton massacre, etc, and we can only act in the last minute, humans will never plan far, except for a group of homogeneously genius individuals, but that will never happen because we have a democracy, we allow even the people who have no idea what they are doing, and making political choices based on nothing, have an even say as those brilliant individuals who know precisely needs to be done. Though, they may have found a way...

    We can't act looking far because we base most of our most important decisions off of how we feel, and not what makes sense, e.g. the US economy will never recover, they will keep going into more debt for the people that need it now rather than consider the livelihood of the tens of millions of people that will never be able to pay it off in taxes, e.g. the students with a mortgage of a loan with an anthropology degree - if they can't pay it back fully before interest rates increase, they will be slaves forever. You see, our society intends completely that tens of millions of people will exist, and yet they do not consider the morality of the situation - there is no such thing as temporal morality because we cannot feel it, and yet it is morality, and based off the same emotions which derive impulsive morality. From this, we can conclude the hopeless nature of our behaviour that will always lead to the same moral ends of completely loss of morals.

    Now, morals are not "fixed" parameters - they are adapted to the environment around you, if you are exposed long enough to something that is dis proportionality "positive" then you will get used to it - it will set the standard of what is "correct" for you. This has effectively done nothing, the amount of seratonin that will shoot on average will actually be lower now, you won't ever be as easily content - you raised your standard, you have increased the distance in value between your most "negative" possible experience and your most "positive" possible experiences, content being the mid-way point. This is simply entitlement being the upper bar and tolerance being the lower bar. Now, if you dump free money on people, or introduce them to free health care at birth, that lowest potential of satisfaction is not as low as if you didn't give them free money, and did not give them free health care. Those are moral things to do but don't make sense because your making it hard for the animals to be satisfied, you see we will perpetually send ourselves into a situation of infinite unhappiness and lack of morals.

    The things you advocate against - going into an Orwellian society, is one of these morally based ideas, you think it is completely morally wrong, when in fact the world in 1984 was a complete Utopia, and the supposed lack of morals are only relatively worse than ours, when in fact the people in that world may be very much more satisfied, and the environment could be sustained as well, simply by engineering the sense of morality. Of course, doing this to a population that has already irresponsibly set their standards to be morally and environmentally unsustainable is not the same, they will feel the relative difference because they already know better. The conclusion is if you cannot effectivelychange the knowledge of everyone, then they need to be wiped out, which is not entirely hard because there are so many justifications for such a thing beyond the idea of engineering knowledge, e.g. running out of oil will drop our agricultural capacity massively anyways, or wars that are apparently because of religious or political tensions.

    Anyways, I could go on all day about this stuff, but most of it is irrelevant in the long term, evolution creates things that are flukes, the way things are built are subtractive from random changes in physiology due to mutations, they come to be with no intent, they just happen to be able not to die and of course would not exist if they could not reproduce. The individual thing in nature is irrelevant - only because man can interpret his emotions with logic does he consider himself and not the machine - all of ecology is a single machine, from the nanomachines inside cells to the shape of trees, it is a design with a mechanic, and it runs off of energy from the sun, it is spectacular to be a part of but it is an absolute fluke, and we do not understand it because we are too busy trying to get stoned off the drugs in our head that were never intended for anything, but happen to manifest as "feelings" that we do try to achieve, and nothing else, even long term planning is for an animalistic ends, increasing chance of survival, i.e. predictability and security, reproduction, and feeling things.

    The machine will die with us being logical. I wonder, if any extraterrestrial could manage to reach a stage of advancement, where their past emotions that used to dictate their behaviour could be suppressed. But then, what is the point of anything? Well, for an INTP, you can just think and discover and that is satisfactory, but the other types may be more restless..

    ..kidding, everyone would be perturbed, and prone to giving in to their impulsive, animalistic nature, and taint the machine to death inevitably. That is the Tide of Humanity. Good thing we can appreciate satire as a positive high!

  3. #13

    That is interesting because I feel as though I'm living in the Dark Ages. It's difficult for me to find a job even though I just received my associate degree...it doesn't seem to be enough for most company employers to even hire me as a secretary...I'm mooching off my mother's breast (practically), and relying on the consideration of selling my body's ovaries to give to rich infertile older women on top of dancing for money. I can't afford my college debt. Renaissance? Maybe for the folk who were able to make it in the early millenium. As far as I know this generation that has spent its early years tied to the threat of terrorism and xenophobia does not buy designer clothing as a whole to feel as though this is the Renaissance at all. So I disagree entirely.
    blindsphinx thanked this post.

  4. #14

    No tengo experiencia, i

  5. #15

    To me structure is structure.. we built pyramids through labour, so if we use any kind of technology to achieve the same results; it is now lazy??

    Perhaps it is not a true comparison, but in what ways is survival so different from commercialism? How does one know how to survive?
    So we are taught a different skill set and so whhhhaaaaaaaaat?


    I will not even pretend to understand what your are hopefully trying to convey here. <--ands that one Owellian (cause my spelling slash grammer is the leas tt of my problems eh??) statement@u


    Instead of trying to trash the current way of quote things are done and here is why unquote; why not spell out your current ideal system??


    Unless you are a voice of positivity, you will never be a voice of accord in yer so called lazy; unmotivated; American peers; lives. BUT Seriously shame? Or are you going for some other play?

  6. #16

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedsNewNameNow View Post
    complacency = Think about it, when has humanity created something because it was purely logical?.
    umm Trigonometry? We are speaking of a pure, closed, logical system right??

    I would include mathematics, but it may not be entirely closed .. I mean good enough for Einstein bbut whateva bug

  7. #17

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedsNewNameNow View Post
    complacency = only so many hours in the day to get things done as it is.

    This is simply entitlement being the upper bar and tolerance being the lower bar. Now, if you dump free money on people, or introduce them to free health care at birth, that lowest potential of satisfaction is not as low as if you didn't give them free money, and did not give them free health care. Those are moral things to do but don't make sense because your making it hard for the animals to be satisfied, you see we will perpetually send ourselves into a situation of infinite unhappiness and lack of morals.
    OK, so can you tell me the true price of love? I'm saying do you need to be raped as a child to fully appreciate and pay for the meaning of love as an adult? Cause if love were free ( do you even have any kind of cost structure?? and do so show) it would be meaningless?? Because, if there was a price attached wow everyone would what exactly??

    ..I mean if you think you can satisfy an animal..

  8. #18

    You're trying to pull some extra meaning out of a process that is designed purely to have you reproduce and be able to take care of the offspring; the reason you feel love is because humans (and many mammals, animals) require to be cared for by a parent subsequent to birth, and thus the parents must have an incentive to do so. Now remember, these animals have no conscious logic to their actions and thus are required to act based purely on emotional/instinctive incentive and thus love is absolutely fundamental to the survival of the species and has nothing to do with the individual, that is where your logical interpretation of the feeling becomes inconsistent with the reality, that is, that love is designed for the child, and not as vital for your partner/spouse after the kid(s) grow, that is why you never stop loving your child but may eventually loose affection for a partner. The average marriage length before divorce happens to be between 7-9 years, and if you consider that nature only designs systems to be adequate and not perfect (i.e. natural selection), then we can see the correlation with what is adequate to perpetuate the species via reproduction, that is, the parents are no longer needed once the children are almost preteens; takes longer for children to mature nowadays - their mandate to life is much different, and required more than feral food gathering and pack-play.

    So there is structure but it is vague; simply speaking - in order for the race to continue to live, and due to the fact we can't hunt our first day out of the womb, a force is needed within the parents of the offspring to care for the offspring until it can hunt/help, with that force, the species would not go on due to lack of reproduction. Thus the force exists, whether it has implications on other parts of the animals behavior is unclear, though will exist so as long as those adverse effects are negligible in determining whether it is adequate to reproduce.

    In any case, this is evolution jabber - we picked up logic, and that was a fluke, so anything you do with love/emotion is yours to play and interpret with - flukes don't have mandates. In any case, knowing your biology may help you understand your behavior, but that's not really what your concerned with, you just want to feel stuff, just make sure decisions are not based so much off feelings so much as to loose our logical approach at sustaining the species, as we lost this impulsive sustainability long ago, and can never go back with logic.

  9. #19
  10. #20

    The constitutional set-up in the US is a sea-anchor to reform.
    Without massive popular support (a de facto revolution), nothing can be changed.

    Checks and balances, a grip on power is very hard to dislodge.

    The answer, that everyone seems to have realised: go around the law. Either physically outside of jurisdiction (globalisation) or verbally around it (legalism).

    If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.


     
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