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At what point does anger and depression become worthy of seeing a psychologist?

3K views 47 replies 17 participants last post by  Penemue 
#1 ·
Hi. I hav ea problem, and im going to give as much info as i think may be relevant to fixing this, but it may not be all relevant so i apoogise, i'm out of touch with communicating with people especially about emotions.
I have many faults, but possibly the most pressing is my anger and imagination. I spend a lot of time being immensly angry, either with myself for failing to notice or understand every single aspect of something, or if i believe that somebody is being idiotic. I hate people that are meek and do not understand when a person want s to be alone, i hate having to work with other people and i hate having to do the same tasks as other people when i know my time could be put to better use.
I also have a large problem connecting with people, there is only one person i care at all about and i would fight to the death for her, but otherwise i just do not understand how people work and get imensly frustrated by failing to communicate properly or by not understanding other people. I cannot remember the last time i have fully registered a positive emotion.
I have a lot of hate, long story short. But now it i getting worse and worse. I frequently have my imagination take over and see the world burning, flesh dripping and burning, and this can last up to a minute. this may not sound like much but the accomanying smell and flash or anger is almost paralysing and i am reduced to closing my eyes and humming in my head to drown out the screams. I know that it is my imagination so i just have to wait, but it is disorientating and im afraid of lashing out unexpectedly. I frequently just want the world to burn.... and it's bothering me because i know that this isnt how people are meant to feel. This is interspersed with feelings of acute depression when i cannot move or speak and i feel so sad it feels like im being ripped apart. I frequently scratch my own skin to try and alleviate this feeling, often to the point my arm ends up bleeding in the middle of a lesson.
I do not want to have to see a therapist or get some psychoanalysis, but im runnng out of options. My mum doesnt know anything is wrong, i'm good at acting ok, and i dont want her to know, and people in my classes are starting to cotton on i think. Im putting this on a general forum (i think, i'm pretty low tech) so that the more emotionally in touch people may have an idea, as i think that they are better equipped to give advice on this sort of situation. Any idea's would be SO helpful, i just dont know what to do about this, as it is getting in the way of my life.:unsure:
 
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#2 ·
If anything is so bad that it interferes with your day-to-day daily functioning and prevents you from carrying out important tasks, it's time to see a therapist. If anything is so bad that you are having frequently recurring thoughts of suicide, it's time to see a therapist. If anything is so bad that you are already self-harming yourself, it is very much time to see a therapist. Finally, if you feel like you just need to talk and sort all of your pain out, it's probably time to see a therapist. Notice how I suggest therapist in all of these cases. I don't believe in taking medication unless you absolutely need it. Therapists aren't so bad so long as you find one who suits you.

I think you should definitely, at the very least, tell your mom about what you're going through and talk it out with her. Maybe she and you can find a way to help you out. Have you ever spoken with the school counselor?
 
#3 ·
If anything is so bad that it interferes with your day-to-day daily functioning and prevents you from carrying out important tasks, it's time to see a therapist.
this (vaguely) defines a mental disorder. go see a therapist. they are great. get one that isn't quick to pump you with drugs. those people are dead inside.
I've dealt with a lot of shit in my life, and it's always better to have that person there for you than not. even if you end up on meds (like me), it might just be the best thing to ever happen to you.
but all fo this sounds really corny to you, right? sorry!
 
#4 ·
Aaaaaah the anger of the INTJs. It is a beautiful thing, really. One of their most useful emotions both to themselves and the world. Also one of the most dangerous and destructive. Angry INTJs are among the most interesting people. You are cool.
 
#5 ·
Im glad you think so?
Thanks for your comments. I really want to tell my mum, but i dont think she can handle this right now. I'm the "good kid". Not that my sister has issues, she just has a social life and is a little confused about her future right now. If i tell her then she mightnot deal with it very well, and i've been acting fine for over a decade now, she might not understand or think that im trying to get attention.
I'm not thinking of suicide, im concerned about harming someone else in a rage. :( Are NHS therapists good? I cant afford a private one, this might be a little over the head of a school therapist used to dealing with "Ooh, that meanie boy is picking on me... Im feeling pressured into drugs" stuff. My Dad could probably afford a private therapist but im loathe to ask him for anything, and i doubt he'd believe me. My life seems perfect, im smart, i have a loving family, im on top of my grades and on track for A*. Im afraid it may be a little hard for people to believe me. And i feel bad, there is no reason why i should feel like this, i dont know if this is just me being crappy at handling emotions.:sad:
 
#6 ·
You will be fine. You may be angry, but you are a good person. Your goodness means that you will find a way through your negative emotions. It might sound silly, but really I think you will be okay in time. Just maybe stop doing things and trying to achieve goals, and place more value on the time you think about your life while you are alone. This will allow you to develop your emotional side to the point where you can understand your anger and make it go away if you want it to. And don't worry about being the good kid, it's clear that you are a good kid, whether or not your family might think so.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for being kind .
I dont like to think about my life. The future is nothing i want it to be. A job i have to do to get money, people i have to interact with, the pressure to get a boyfriend and make emotional attachments.
The past is too hard to remember, probably because i spent most of it wrapped up in my head and my imagination.
The present? Includes me sitting down here mentally calling you incompetent for thinking i am a good person, hating myself for it and trying to supress the ugre to chew my nails while listening to House. It cant be good to feel like this, it cant be good to think the thoughts i do and it cant be good to feel the emotions i feel.
I dont know why i am disagreeing with you when you are giving the answers you feel are best and i think i need to believe. I think i'm going to agree with WNF and fiasco and see a therapist discreetly and see what he/she has to see.:sad:
 
#8 ·
Well...don't hate yourself for hating me. If you think that a person is worthy of hatred for thinking that you are a good person, it only means that you are too self critical right now to allow yourself to think of yourself as a good person. I will continue to think that you are a good person, whatever you may think of me, okay? :p I know that bothers you. Do you understand why?

Even if what I say is true, there is no reason why you should need to believe it. The ways you are acting and thinking at this time are simply ways that you are trying to be the best you can. You think that you would do better without the anger. The truth is is that you wouldn't, until you find the reasons why you are so angry.
 
#9 ·
First of all, well done for giving the energy to explain yourself like that. I'm inclined to believe this means you really need this.

My initial suggestion is to introspect and be really, really honest with yourself and choose whether you think or feel you need to see someone to support you throughout something you're trying to solve.

You're a decent judge because if you face yourself with your own circumstances, you're able to figure out if you really need the input of a well equipped individual regarding your issue or if you're able to go through the process by yourself without any further damage.

This isn't an easy thing, it's not evident... You seem to be very unsure, so my real suggestion is to at least TRY To See Someone :) and then evaluate what this means to you and what your next step is.
So if you're going to go that route, give it a chance and continue choosing from there on. If not then I wish you luck on your more individual approach.

Also, the fact nobody even KNOWS about this might be another good reason to actually share yourself with another human being. You shouldn't go alone through this and at some point everything comes out anyways.

Last but not least, you're certainly not the only INTJ coping with these things and so it's likely you can better the situation with proper effort and life learning.
 
#10 ·
*sigh* I dont hate you, i just dont understand your optimism. I feel like i dont understand anything right now. I need to believe it because the other options are worse and i need to get over this. I think i'm just going to get logical, choose the best option (therapist), and hammer on through in a bloodyminded bout of stubbornness until they have picked over every aspect and i am declared fully normal by some therapist.
Why do you think i am a good person? Just out of curiosity. Umm, that was to justinhammer.
 
#11 ·
Aaaaaah the anger of the INTJs. It is a beautiful thing, really. One of their most useful emotions both to themselves and the world. Also one of the most dangerous and destructive. Angry INTJs are among the most interesting people. You are cool.
Im glad you think so?
Thanks for your comments. I really want to tell my mum, but i dont think she can handle this right now. I'm the "good kid". Not that my sister has issues, she just has a social life and is a little confused about her future right now. If i tell her then she might not deal with it very well, and i've been acting fine for over a decade now, she might not understand or think that im trying to get attention.
I'm not thinking of suicide, im concerned about harming someone else in a rage. :( Are NHS therapists good? I cant afford a private one, this might be a little over the head of a school therapist used to dealing with "Ooh, that meanie boy is picking on me... Im feeling pressured into drugs" stuff. My Dad could probably afford a private therapist but im loathe to ask him for anything, and i doubt he'd believe me. My life seems perfect, im smart, i have a loving family, im on top of my grades and on track for A*. Im afraid it may be a little hard for people to believe me. And i feel bad, there is no reason why i should feel like this, i dont know if this is just me being crappy at handling emotions.:sad:
Thanks for being kind .
I dont like to think about my life. The future is nothing i want it to be. A job i have to do to get money, people i have to interact with, the pressure to get a boyfriend and make emotional attachments.
The past is too hard to remember, probably because i spent most of it wrapped up in my head and my imagination.
The present? Includes me sitting down here mentally calling you incompetent for thinking i am a good person, hating myself for it and trying to suppress the urge to chew my nails while listening to House. It cant be good to feel like this, it cant be good to think the thoughts i do and it cant be good to feel the emotions i feel.
I dont know why i am disagreeing with you when you are giving the answers you feel are best and i think i need to believe. I think i'm going to agree with WNF and fiasco and see a therapist discreetly and see what he/she has to see.:sad:
*sigh* I dont hate you, i just dont understand your optimism. I feel like i dont understand anything right now. I need to believe it because the other options are worse and i need to get over this. I think i'm just going to get logical, choose the best option (therapist), and hammer on through in a bloodyminded bout of stubbornness until they have picked over every aspect and i am declared fully normal by some therapist.
Why do you think i am a good person? Just out of curiosity. Umm, that was to justinhammer.
"Normal" is something I always wanted. To be more specific, I wanted to be understood. I wanted to be accepted. I wanted to feel happiness. I was tired of feeling only despair and cynicism. My love/hate relationship with people in general was alienating me from myself. The world to me was a pathetic, ugly, cruel place. I would think of my problems and compare them to that of a child being raped and killed, feeling like why should I feel so much anger when I am so much more fortunate? Why should I be so angry over the fact that I can't control these things, I can't "fix" them.

I have tried to kill myself twice, and probably thought about it countless thousands of times. You say that suicide isn't a prominent issue, one could conclude that you like some things about life enough that you have reasons to want to live.

When I've become so absorbed by my hatred and loathing of the world my brain says to me: "No, you can't act out on it, people will get hurt, you will go to prison, you will get hurt, your life will go to shit, and all this anger will be for nothing, no one will understand, so you can't do something violent to others or to property..." My only logical resort being suicide. Kill myself, end the frustration, the constant clash, the struggle, the no-win situation of placing the world to such high ideals and seeing nothing to hope for in the future. Nothing worth working toward that couldn't just be destroyed or lost or de-valued by foolish people.

I can't "fix" the world, I can't make it operate to my desires, I can't tell people to be better, human beings aren't psychic and they are inherently selfish. They do useless things in a repeated nature. Mindless things. They fixate on tedium and revel in it just to stay sane, then when they can't take anymore they go do stupid things like get wasted or hurt others. They aren't making progress or if they are it's too freakishly slow. It frustrates me to no end. Two steps forward, 1 step back, it's still progress but it's so agonizingly delayed.


If I succumb to the stupidity of the world, I will be no better than any of them. I will just be making things worse, and I will lose.


As much as people are different, we are the same.


You will need a fresh perspective on the world, one that allows you to speak your feelings until you understand them fully. Once you can understand them, you should continue to talk your feelings through. You will know yourself. It is one of the phrases of old, scribbled in ancient text: "Know Thyself".


You will be asked a lot of questions, not to determine if you are a good or bad person. These questions will guide you to a place of chaos, through it to the other side where you can see yourself in the world and feel a positive motivation. You will be able to see your emotions for what they are, and they won't control you, you will be able to concentrate on using them for positive ambitions, not because of money or obligation but because you are able to see a greater goal, something fulfilling for you, personally.


Yes, you do need to talk to someone. Go for the best offer that you can get. You need this.


I have been depressed since I was a young child- angry, temperamental, my own mother wanted for nothing more than my happiness, and couldn't bear to see me do what I was doing anymore which was withdrawing from people, unable to talk. She had no communication with me, though she kept trying and trying she couldn't get through.


Once you connect with someone things will begin to get better. You are willing to do something because you want help. That's the first step... you are not weak for saying these things, you are stronger than you can realize right now.


I know that you are a good person, because I have felt what you've felt. I wanted to hurt people even though I knew it was wrong and so somehow I was able to stop myself, but the monster of my rage wanted to turn itself on me because it was the only thing I felt in control of anymore. It won't always be possible for you to stop yourself... so you are doing the right thing, now.


Not everyone will be able to understand. Don't worry what other people will think about you, it's going to be hard to not care about their opinions, but your focus will need to be that there ARE people who understand you and that counts for more than every person in the world that you meet who doesn't. Even if your family doesn't understand, with time and communication they will be able to understand your needs. You should be able to share your feelings with someone you trust. It will do infinite amounts of good for you.


Do you want to be happy? I thought that to be happy I had to be "normal" but I realized with help and time and perspective and yes, some love, I could be happy, being normal wasn't the real issue. Our minds work in unique ways, and it can be to our benefit, not to our destruction. You just have to take that first step, and keep moving forward. Emotions are not bad, they can be very beautiful, but you must deal with both the beautiful and the ugly. You must face it in a safe environment. You can do it. You can do this.
 
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#12 ·
Thankyou. That makes.. a lot of sense. I think i need to sleep on it, I think this forum is on American time so nobody really answers until it's late here :( Cant process anything now, am being competely mindless.
 
#13 ·
Well I can tell you if you are a good person if you tell me the things that you believe make up a good person.
 
#14 ·
Hi. I hav ea problem, and im going to give as much info as i think may be relevant to fixing this, but it may not be all relevant so i apoogise, i'm out of touch with communicating with people especially about emotions.
I have many faults, but possibly the most pressing is my anger and imagination. I spend a lot of time being immensly angry, either with myself for failing to notice or understand every single aspect of something, or if i believe that somebody is being idiotic. I hate people that are meek and do not understand when a person want s to be alone, i hate having to work with other people and i hate having to do the same tasks as other people when i know my time could be put to better use.
I also have a large problem connecting with people, there is only one person i care at all about and i would fight to the death for her, but otherwise i just do not understand how people work and get imensly frustrated by failing to communicate properly or by not understanding other people. I cannot remember the last time i have fully registered a positive emotion.
I have a lot of hate, long story short. But now it i getting worse and worse. I frequently have my imagination take over and see the world burning, flesh dripping and burning, and this can last up to a minute. this may not sound like much but the accomanying smell and flash or anger is almost paralysing and i am reduced to closing my eyes and humming in my head to drown out the screams. I know that it is my imagination so i just have to wait, but it is disorientating and im afraid of lashing out unexpectedly. I frequently just want the world to burn.... and it's bothering me because i know that this isnt how people are meant to feel. This is interspersed with feelings of acute depression when i cannot move or speak and i feel so sad it feels like im being ripped apart. I frequently scratch my own skin to try and alleviate this feeling, often to the point my arm ends up bleeding in the middle of a lesson.
I do not want to have to see a therapist or get some psychoanalysis, but im runnng out of options. My mum doesnt know anything is wrong, i'm good at acting ok, and i dont want her to know, and people in my classes are starting to cotton on i think. Im putting this on a general forum (i think, i'm pretty low tech) so that the more emotionally in touch people may have an idea, as i think that they are better equipped to give advice on this sort of situation. Any idea's would be SO helpful, i just dont know what to do about this, as it is getting in the way of my life.:unsure:
Normally I would say as a generic response,

the answer is simple....

When you feel it is time to go to a psychologist... You are the only one who knows how you are feeling, who you are comfortable talking to, how much cash you have to invest in one etc etc...:happy:

However given your circumstances....:shocked:

I'm going to say the same!:laughing:

You know that you don't want it to ruin your life, great, you know that you don't want to keep having your arms bleed, great, you realise that a part of your imagination may be leading to see or feel things that aren't real, great. What haven't you done though?

You haven't recognised your emotions as being something valid. You say 'I know this isn't how people are MEANT to feel', to be honest, there is no right or wrong about humans and feelings. There is no I SHOULD FEEL LIKE ... there is only I DO FEEL LIKE... So first forget about how you are 'supposed' to be feeling... Start with how you ACTUALLY feel.

Clearly something in your personal boundary has made you feel this way. One of YOUR terms has been crossed, and it doesn't matter how old you are, we ALL have a personal boundary, the fact you say you 'don't know' what the problem is... IS THE PROBLEM. So maybe if you started to think about what things are causing these feelings of anger in you, you may be able to start dealing with them.

Secondly, don't worry about other people, you aren't responsible for them, and the truth is their is always going to be someone who you could call MEEK or SMART or IDIOTIC or RICH or POOR or whatever. The fact is YOU CAN'T CHANGE THAT, you only have power over yourself, so let the rest go... You will become a lot happier when you start caring less about what others are doing, and more about your own well being.

The key to solving anger or hate, is to be ASSERTIVE (remember this word!), what this means, is that you go out and get your NEEDS met WITHOUT HARMING YOURSELF OR ANYONE ELSE! You are important and so are other people. The only way people get along is if we take care of what we want, let others take care of themselves and don't hurt others or ourselves while we do it.

So work out what it is you need in your life? Do you want more time alone? Do you need more sleep? Do you want to change classes? Do you want to speak to someone? etc etc :confused:, keep asking yourself questions to work out what you are not happy with in your life... and then see if there are any friends, teachers, or anyone in your family who you want to help you solve the problem. If you feel that you can trust them.

We only get angry, if we let something make us angry. So you can beat this! I know you can, if you choose to! Just keep working at it! In fact you have already done the first step by asking for help, which is great because it shows that you are prepared to solve the problem and do what it takes, and you aren't so angry that you won't accept advice or help. :wink:
 
#15 ·
I was reluctant to post here because I can totally relate and this is kind of a very deep issue for me...

But honestly, it sounds like you are feeling a lot of self reinforcing negativity... I know I go through that a lot.

Aside from the recommendations already given.. I'd say, try to accept what is happening. You can be ok.

Also I think, try to avoid putting labels to your feelings too quickly. Just because you feel something intense, that doesn't mean you are angry... that word 'angry' seems to be highly negative for you, and I don't think it's helping you because it seems to make you feel worse.

The reason I say that is, I know I am quick to label my feelings too, and I have a lot of issues with anger, but I'm not always angry. Some times I'm just hurt, or intensely passionate about something... but if I always call them "anger" then I start to feel very badly about it. So you see? Some times you just need to feel what you feel, and not try to put it in a box... at least not right away.

But yeah.. I do recommend a therapist or counsellor. I know it helped me a lot, and even though I think I still have a lot of problems compared to an average person, I'm also soooo much better than I used to be. And some times I would just take a vacation at the therapist's office... not even really talking or anything, I just felt relaxed and safe there, which was often more helpful than anything.

Well anyway... I hope things work out for you. :laughing:
 
#16 ·
Hi,

I'm speaking from a variety of perspectives to you. I'm 53 years old and was abused as a child so had a very troubled teenage life and sometimes still get those rage attacks - not saying you're being abused as you said you have a loving family - just saying so you know that I empathise with your feelings. I am an occupational therapist and worked for more than 20 years in the NHS mental health services. I am now an academic, single mother with two teenage daughters (15 & 17).

What I notice is that there is a huge increase in teens feeling really unhappy with themselves and feeling angry, confused, lonely, etc. I think it's a social problem more than anything. Now this might be a bit hard to grasp but you seem pretty intelligent.

The ideas of what a human is and in particular our inner world might be are not fixed. Humans are subject to whatever social, historical and cultural ideas they are growing up into. That means that at a really profound level we are not quite as separate/individual/boundaried as we think. We have absorbed the definitions which we are presented with every day and we think they are real.

Currently in the UK and I suspect most of the Western world, humans are being defined by two really powerful forces - psychology and consumerism.

Psychology is invested in making you believe that your problems are to do with your 'damaged' or 'distorted' or 'unhealthy' or 'dangerous' emotions, thoughts, impulses, feelings etc. So these phenomena have to be defined as an 'object' so they can be made a problem to be solved. This means that you begin to relate to these phenomena as 'my' feelings 'my' emotions. Great if they're pleasant, but what happens when they're horrible? This individualised view of the human condemns you to being trapped inside yourself, always having to deal with, tame and control your inner world. Guess what? IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!!! So you're given the message that you have to engage in 'self-policing' so when you can't do that you blame and punish yourself. See through the lie.

So what to do instead? If you are an INTJ really then you should be able to do this exercise. For one month what you need to do is an experiment. Instead of identifying with your feelings and thoughts (especially those scary images) and thinking they are 'you', step back and simply notice them as phenomena which come into your consciousness. The only thing that can be regarded as 'you' is your awareness - that is within your control. Where you place your attention. So when thoughts and emotions arise, just notice them - sometimes labelling them can help, e.g. 'scary image', 'self-loathing thought', and then the really powerful bit, just let them go. Treat them like you would any other passing phenomena and you will see through them - they are just weird things that your brain produces! I can't stress this enough - commit to doing this for a month and really have a go.

The second tyrant which is tormenting teens is consumerism - you are being brainwashed all the time into keeping capitalism going. Now I'm not saying this from some political ideological position - I like being able to buy things just as much as anyone else, but you need to be aware of just how saturated your world is with messages from the media about what you should buy and you have never lived in the world without these forces - think about it - when I was at primary school TV was first available and only a few homes had one!!! You need to wake up to this because the way the media gets you to buy things is by shaping your idea of who you are and who you should be. And this is also about having to be a totally unique and special individual. Just watch MTV and similar programmes - Miami Ink etc. see through the format - it's all designed to make you feel that you are not quite good enough unless you have x.y.z. or unless you think like a.b.c. etc. and all bases are covered - the girly girls, the sexy girls, the boho girls, the cool hippy chick - whatever. Unless you can show you are special you are nothing. What a horrible thing to do to our children - turning them into pawns for the economy.

And finally the greatest tool in keeping our youth brainwashed - therapy. That's the answer to everything now. So - you are brainwashed into thinking your emotions and thoughts are things you can and have to control - so when you can't you need an expert to help you. Nice little earner as they say. Not to say that therapy doesn't work or that it doesn't have a place but it is being used by society to control people nowadays - every normal experience is pathologised! Grief at breaking up with a boyfriend, confusion about identity (totally normal for teens), upset over friendship difficulties, difficulty with concentrating on schoolwork (why do you need to learn quadratic equations ffs) etc etc Anger ( you have every right to be angry - the adults have messed up the economy, the environment, your future) This is no better than communist Russia sending dissidents into mental hospitals.

I suggest every teen on this board who sympathises with the OP get down to the library and read Brave New World. You are the barbarians - you are the sane ones. This is YOUR world just as much as the adults - decide the kind of adults you want to be, get better role models than the sub-pornographic females and self-absorbed males presented to you through the TV. Listen to Patti Smith! The Clash!
 
#17 ·
Things that make up a good person? Umm, empathy, doing what you believe to be moral, inner strength and yet flexibility... I dont know. Wisdom when empathy is not appropriate...

Thanks to cardinalfire, that last part especially.

But what are you meant to do when a person asks you in a way that you cant just ignore or divert? A teacher recently asked me what was wrong as she said i had been acting strangely and noticed my scars, and i couldnt just tell her to go away. She seems to think that because i help her occaisonally that she can ask into my personal life, that we are friends. I ended up getting angry and raising my voice at her and telling her there was nothing wrong and to butt out, and then she had the nerve to act hurt! I couldnt help thinking, she has no right to care about me and got angry at her when i know that i was the one that acted badly. I'm now dreading the next time i have to see her. I just wanted time alone and got furious when somebody didnt understand that, and i know that was impolite.:frustrating:
How are you meant to deal with that, especially when somebody asks you inpublic?
 
#18 ·
I just wanted time alone and got furious when somebody didnt understand that, and i know that was impolite.
Tell her that sentence.

The key is this:

When she asks what she wants to, just say POLITELY and CALMLY,

"I do not wish to talk about it yet I am not ready (or don't want to), and when I feel ready to share something with you I will, I have to cope with it myself first by having time alone, if you keep asking me questions that will make it worse/harder for me because I won't want to share anything with you"

If you say something like that. or along those lines, then i'm sure teachers would understand. Teachers really have your interests at heart and sometimes just want you to tell them in a calm way that you have to deal with it yourself, because then they know that you realise there is a problem, or you aren't happy, whereas some people will not realise what is going on or even want to talk about it. I get the impression you want to talk about it, though in your own time. Otherwise you wouldn't be on an internet forum discussing it... I'm not saying it's wrong either way, I just get the impression you feel very smart and yet with all your intelligence you still don't know how to work out your emotions, is that true? You come across to me as someone who is very smart despite having some anger that you are working on. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Learn some patience for when dealing with other people, or at least work out what is causing you to be impatient. Then perhaps you won't snap or get angry sooo quickly just because a teacher is asking a question about your well being and safety. Despite the fact that some teachers can come off as cold, noisy parkers, they do actually have your best interests at heart and want to see you do well in life and many will go that extra mile to make sure you aren't coming to any harm, physically or emotionally.
 
#19 ·
Yeah, you're right about being intelligent and not dealing with emotions. *sigh* She isnt cold and nosy, she's too warm and cuddly and nosy. I think the impatience is caused by supressing anger for much of my life until it leaked out in destructive ways, and then it got so bottled up that it spilt over more often and much worse.
Its amazing how much better a person can feel for just talking about it a bit. Barely scratched the surface, but it's much better:happy:
Umm, snowqueen, i dont mind you giving a diagnosis but your politics seemed to have creeped in somehow. (And quadratic equations are very useful in various mathematic and science based jobs, and there would be no reason to hold everybody away from them just because some people arent going t use them), and hpw is being labelled cool hippy chick or sexy girl making them pawns for the economy? Of course humans are defined by the psychological and consumerism because that is all there is, the mental and the physical, the mind and the material. I'm not saying it's a good thing but that is all there is.
 
#20 ·
Umm, snowqueen, i dont mind you giving a diagnosis but your politics seemed to have creeped in somehow. (And quadratic equations are very useful in various mathematic and science based jobs, and there would be no reason to hold everybody away from them just because some people arent going t use them), and hpw is being labelled cool hippy chick or sexy girl making them pawns for the economy? Of course humans are defined by the psychological and consumerism because that is all there is, the mental and the physical, the mind and the material. I'm not saying it's a good thing but that is all there is.
Actually I'm the one saying you don't need a diagnosis (you were the one who mentioned anger and depression)

If you want be defined by psychology and consumerism and think 'that is all there is' then be my guest. It's entirely up to you. I just thought you might possibly be interested in a wider perspective. What with being an INTJ and all that. My mistake. Sorry.
 
#21 ·
There is only the subjective experience of reality. Our experience of material things and perception of them matters far more than however they can be defined objectively. The only value lies in our own subjective valuing of ourselves and our experience.
 
#23 ·
Yes, i am defined by psychology and the material world. I am ruled by my mind because my mind holds my intelligence. Ten there is the material world, clothes to stop us getting cold and to make us look good, because that makes us happier and gets us physical pleasure, buying houses that are large and pleasant because we want room and to stay warm, and it makes us attractive to other people and that makes us happy.
Your diagnosis is to reject a diagnosis, and label things and then tuck them away neatly n a corner of my mind. Believe it or not, that is what got me into this mess, just labelling my emotions like jars and studying them like bugs under a microscope. They become less real and i got depersonalized, and then they become stronger as i looked the other way, like a king believing the peasants will never rise and being shocked when they are knocking down the castle.
To TempusFugit, then they become psychological, our mental response to the physical. Still either physical and psychological.
 
#30 ·
Yes, i am defined by psychology and the material world. I am ruled by my mind because my mind holds my intelligence. Ten there is the material world, clothes to stop us getting cold and to make us look good, because that makes us happier and gets us physical pleasure, buying houses that are large and pleasant because we want room and to stay warm, and it makes us attractive to other people and that makes us happy.
I think you may have misunderstood my argument - I wasn't suggesting that the material world, wanting nice clothes, a nice house etc. is wrong or unnatural - but those natural desires are being subverted by a society which is dependent on people being dissatisfied with what they have and feeling the need to have more - the idea that your clothes and large house is what make you attractive to other people is a sign of that. What makes you attractive to other people is the way you behave towards them, the way you behave towards yourself and the way you behave towards the world, not some material possessions. Those can be lost in an instant and then what/who are you left with? Of course you are ruled by your mind and your intellience, I wasn't disputing that but 'psychology' is a pseudoscience dependent on the same kinds of positivist circular belief systems as religion. You believe in God, you believe in 'inner drives' - same faulty logic.

Your diagnosis is to reject a diagnosis,
a clever but meaningless phrase :happy: I offered no diagnosis - I have made no formulation of your needs or your faults because I am not operating from the premise that you are 'ill'. On the contrary you are probably perfectly fine the way you are - angry is not so bad. Depressed? What does that mean? You are miserable? Dissatisfied? Irritated by adults who misunderstand you? Pissed off with other people who aren't as intelligent as you, who are over-emotional? Look - you asked a question about when you needed to seek help for 'anger and depression' and I replied in good faith.

and label things and then tuck them away neatly n a corner of my mind. Believe it or not, that is what got me into this mess, just labelling my emotions like jars and studying them like bugs under a microscope.
Please do me the courtesy of reading what I wrote again and tell me where I suggest you study your thoughts and emotions like bugs? Of course that is precisely what has got you into a mess. I suggested you notice them briefly and let them go! It's a technique for mental and emotional stability which has been tried and tested for 2,500 years which is becoming widely regarded as helpful to managing emotions and disturbing thoughts.


I dont really get stressed by things that are traditionally stressful. School is boring, Dad is an ass but easily handled, people are... people. The only thing that stresses me is people and their personalities and unfortunately they are everywhere.
I think you may find that people and their personalities are 'traditionally stressful'. Especially for introverts. Being INXJ is not easy - I was responding to your distress in good faith. I'm sorry if it wasn't helpful, but hopefully you might see that I wasn't 'diagnosing' you or trying to minimise your experience - quite the contrary. I wish nothing you but happiness with yourself and the world.
 
#24 ·
Well personally I wouldn't label them and then tuck them away. I would keep applying new labels until everything is labelled in a way that can bring happiness.
The reason you are in the mess is because you are not viewing your emotions as you, but things that belong to you (things in jars), or perhaps something objective that is not really yours, but something that just exists and nothing can be done about them. You must allow yourself to feel your emotions, not just stare at them and wonder why they are there. The king must realize that he/she is just as human as the peasants and is only more valuable because of the subjective human value that "someone or something" has given to him.
 
#25 ·
That's what i am doing now, but now it is hard to remember how to be human. I'm pointing out the problem with labelling things into jars, its two conflicting instructions, View your emotions as part of you or label them and put them away, diagnosis courtesy of snowqueen.
 
#27 ·
I dont really get stressed by things that are traditionally stressful. School is boring, Dad is an ass but easily handled, people are... people. The only thing that stresses me is people and their personalities and unfortunately they are everywhere.
 
#28 ·
I know you might not feel human right now, but everything you are experiencing is very human and probably very normal for a teenage INTJ girl.
You say people and their personalities stress you out...maybe you should place more value on how good your own personality is (and if you don't feel it is good, spend some time alone figuring out how to make it great). If someone else's personality doesn't seem that great to you, and kind of retarded and boring, or mean and useless, then why should they matter to you? Just limit your interactions with them and learn how to deal with them in the ways that will stress you out the least. Until you figure out how to do this (which you will learn to do as you get older), you will unfortunately experience some stress, which sucks, since you have so many other things you already have to worry about.
 
#31 ·
Surely having good clothes suggests wealth, and a large house suggests the same, and that would make living with us an attractive prospect as someone to cohabit with and possibly have children and share genes with. Not necessarily the only thing, but i'm sure it helps.
By traditionally stressful i meant peer pressure into drugs, alcohol, arguments with parents, exams, usual teenage stuff.
Let emotions go - Go where? Just release them into the unknown? I dont know how to do that. How do you just let them go? Anger is not so bad? Theres only so far anger can take you, and it makes people lash out againt what they love and against their conscience.
:sad: I think i'm getting angry at nothing, seeing things where thay dont exist. I dont even know what i'm feeling anymore.
 
#32 ·
Surely having good clothes suggests wealth, and a large house suggests the same, and that would make living with us an attractive prospect as someone to cohabit with and possibly have children and share genes with. Not necessarily the only thing, but i'm sure it helps.
Yes you are right - of course it does. I would be a hypocrite if I were to say otherwise. But I think there's a difference between being an attractive 'prospect' or an attractive person.

By traditionally stressful i meant peer pressure into drugs, alcohol, arguments with parents, exams, usual teenage stuff.
And I guess that I see that stress as being external - part of the social and cultural pressures of the time. I think it's becoming increasingly hard for teenagers - the available narratives; the ways you can construct the story of who you are, are fairly negative or unreasonable. They do say teens have always had a hard time and that it's no different now. Maybe.

Let emotions go - Go where? Just release them into the unknown? I dont know how to do that. How do you just let them go?
I love the image of releasing emotions into the 'unknown' as if they were animals released into the wild. You let the go by not feeding them by 'feeding' I mean generating thoughts to keep the emotions churning away. There are different ways you can let go - through relaxation, exercise, distraction and meditation. But emotions are tremendously seductive! It takes practice. Basically once you 'catch' yourself riding the wave of an emotion, the act of 'noticing' already changes it.

Anger is not so bad? Theres only so far anger can take you, and it makes people lash out againt what they love and against their conscience.
:sad: I think i'm getting angry at nothing, seeing things where thay dont exist. I dont even know what i'm feeling anymore.
That sounds pretty frustrating and a bit sad. I find it quite useful to ask myself 'how would I like to be feeling now?' and then thinking of what I know will produce that feeling - . That feels a bit more empowering. Kind of bypasses the problem and leads into something more creative. Are there times when you do feel good or when yo do feel ok? What's happening at those times?
 
#33 ·
Fair point about the prospect/person thing. I dont really find people attractive so i tend to think along more logical lines ike "He would give me space" or "He is smart, interesting." or "He is realy skillful at ...., that could be interesting to watch"
Ummm... I dont know. I guess i feel best after doing something requiring skill like a piece of art, or a maths problem, or realising something before other people. Or reading a book. Or shooting.
I'll try to make a point of noticing when i am feeling emotions, nd try the thing about thinking what i would like to feel like. That should be interesting.
:sad: Sorry about earlier, i think i was being rude... i'm out of touch with people. I know it's not an excuse.
 
#35 ·
Fair point about the prospect/person thing. I dont really find people attractive so i tend to think along more logical lines ike "He would give me space" or "He is smart, interesting." or "He is realy skillful at ...., that could be interesting to watch"
That actually sounds pretty sensible! I also find noticing how I feel about myself in someone's company quite revealing.

Ummm... I dont know. I guess i feel best after doing something requiring skill like a piece of art, or a maths problem, or realising something before other people. Or reading a book. Or shooting.
Now that is really useful information - clearly spending too much time inside yourself isn't good for you - but doing things which manifest in the real world is. Not surprising seeing as you are INTJ so have Te and Ni - you need to see things 'out there' - leave the ruminating to the INTPs :laughing: INTJs are the wizards who bring things into being - you make things happen!


:sad: Sorry about earlier, i think i was being rude... i'm out of touch with people. I know it's not an excuse.
Hey, it's no problem - I'm pretty thick skinned for an INFJ.

btw - was looking through websites for work reasons and came across this article which is kind of a much better exposition of what I was trying to express - yes, it's written with an 'angle' as it's for the Guardian - but the research and statistics are interesting.
 
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